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In Defense of Richard Stallman

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Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#81

Post by verroq »

Barrin92 wrote: post #10

> They focused on his tone deaf communication style and awkward demeanor. They spoke of behavior from decades ago and pointed out the fact that he had a mattress in his office. It wasn't just awkward demeanor. He actively made women feel unwelcome in the workplace and behaved unprofessionally over and over again. > He held his positions at MIT, GNU, and the FSF for over thirty years, and in that time nobody accused h…

> He actively made women feel unwelcome in the workplace and behaved unprofessionally over and over again.

How do you know this? How do you know that he deliberately tries to make women uncomfortable? I don't think any women is comfortable near a fat, bearded virgin that eats things off his foot, but to accuse him of deliberately making women uncomfortable implies that he knows some of his actions are off limits and he's deliberately crossing the line. You're just attributing malice when there's a simple answer - he's socially awkward, he doesn't know what the limits are.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#82

Post by coldtea »

lagadu wrote: post #64
coldtea wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope people thinking like above, or sad finger-pointers like the ones writing the articles, are removed from the tech industry...

Yes, I too would like everyone who I disagree with to be removed from my industry. That was sarcasm, because apparently in 2019 that's an acceptable thing to say with a straight face.

>Yes, I too would like everyone who I disagree with to be removed from my industry

So, like those people you seem to applaud did to Stallman?

>apparently in 2019 that's an acceptable thing to say with a straight face

Oh, the irony...

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#84

Post by computerex »

asutekku wrote: post #52
rndgermandude wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name them please? The "creep" incidents, that is.

Here's a thread: https://mobile.twitter.com/_sagesharp_/status/11736371384133...

Can you please read the thread yourself and point out to specific instances you are referring to? Because there is a lot of false information in this thread, like so:

> Last week, on a private MIT mailing list, Richard Stallman argued that a sex trafficking survivor may have "willingly" presented herself, and thus Minksey hadn't really committed sexual assault. That being coerced by Epstein made it not rape.

Which is flat out wrong, and something that the article here explicitly demonstrates why it's false. Did you read the "Defense of Richard Stallman" article presented here in this thread?

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#85

Post by blowski »

sergiosgc wrote: post #36
Barrin92 wrote: post #10

> They focused on his tone deaf communication style and awkward demeanor. They spoke of behavior from decades ago and pointed out the fact that he had a mattress in his office. It wasn't just awkward demeanor. He actively made women feel unwelcome in the workplace and behaved unprofessionally over and over again. > He held his positions at MIT, GNU, and the FSF for over thirty years, and in that time nobody accused h…

> It wasn't just awkward demeanor. He actively made women feel unwelcome in the workplace and behaved unprofessionally over and over again. Every episode I read about fell into the category of "socially awkward adult male". If we can't, as a group, tolerate awkwardness, we are very much down the rabbit hole of mandatory social conformity. By all means, point me to a real abuse scenario by Stallman. I like being prove…

Agreed. If Stallman was a charming, charismatic, handsome guy with a square jaw and good hair the whole conversation would probably have a different lens placed on it.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#86

Post by diffeomorphism »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #69
sergiosgc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It wasn't just awkward demeanor. He actively made women feel unwelcome in the workplace and behaved unprofessionally over and over again. Every episode I read about fell into the category of "socially awkward adult male". If we can't, as a group, tolerate awkwardness, we are very much down the rabbit hole of mandatory social conformity. By all means, point me to a real abuse scenario by Stallman. I like being prove…

Ignoring a legal age of consent, refusing to accept the accepted definitions of assault and rape, and claiming they were actually willing are emphatically not just "socially awkward".

And he did none of these.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#87

Post by lagadu »

CPLX wrote: post #47

Our culture has made a very bright line decision that sex with minors is unacceptable. Expressing doubt about this cultural norm, or especially advocating against it, is considered unacceptable. Of course one can argue with the merits of those two facts, but they are plainly true and fairly widely accepted. The very concept of statutory rape reinforces how clear this judgment is. The reference to "statutory" means th…

> His actions just make him unqualified to be a leader.

So you're saying that the only people qualified to be "a leader" are the ones who subscribe to your particular flavour of groupthink and no other? Nice thought policing there.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#88

Post by nabla9 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #10

> They focused on his tone deaf communication style and awkward demeanor. They spoke of behavior from decades ago and pointed out the fact that he had a mattress in his office. It wasn't just awkward demeanor. He actively made women feel unwelcome in the workplace and behaved unprofessionally over and over again. > He held his positions at MIT, GNU, and the FSF for over thirty years, and in that time nobody accused h…

I'm voting you down because you don't give specifics.

If you have something to share, put the effort to be specific. Now you are just throwing general accusations.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#89

Post by mbel »

sergiosgc wrote: post #36
Barrin92 wrote: post #10

> They focused on his tone deaf communication style and awkward demeanor. They spoke of behavior from decades ago and pointed out the fact that he had a mattress in his office. It wasn't just awkward demeanor. He actively made women feel unwelcome in the workplace and behaved unprofessionally over and over again. > He held his positions at MIT, GNU, and the FSF for over thirty years, and in that time nobody accused h…

> It wasn't just awkward demeanor. He actively made women feel unwelcome in the workplace and behaved unprofessionally over and over again. Every episode I read about fell into the category of "socially awkward adult male". If we can't, as a group, tolerate awkwardness, we are very much down the rabbit hole of mandatory social conformity. By all means, point me to a real abuse scenario by Stallman. I like being prove…

> If we can't, as a group, tolerate awkwardness, we are very much down the rabbit hole of mandatory social conformity.

Which seem to go against all goals of diversity and inclusiveness. If we strive for more diverse community we have accept quirks of some people. Only in purely homogeneous group everybody can be comfortable and not offended.

Re: In Defense of Richard Stallman

#90

Post by bloak »

DanBC wrote: post #8

> blatantly lie about what was said, I've seen this said a few times, and it needs to be cleared up. Stallman defended Minsky by saying it wasn't rape and it was assault. To mount this defence Stallman had to ignore common English definitions for both words, and he had to ignore the legal definitions of both words. People are angry at Stallman for what he actually said, not what you think they think he said. If you w…

You're not clearing things up; you are contributing to the misinformation. Your unsubstantiated claim that "Stallman defended Minsky" really doesn't help, unless, perhaps, it helps train people to ignore what they read on the Internet about such matters.

Here's what a proper newspaper wrote on the subject:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/sep/17/mit-scient...

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