Richard M. Stallman resigns • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#81

Post by codyb » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:59 AM UTC

tehjoker wrote: post #41

This is very sad that the leader of the FSF took such actions. We benefited from his insights and advocacy on software, but the defense of Epstein, who essentially had a child abuse production line and defense of pedophilia is not something I can support and it is proper that someone new takes over. Stallman's views were a variety of American libertarianism. While there are a few good points within that tradition reg…

From reading his comments isn’t he defending someone named Minsk who had sex with a 17 year old and didn’t know she was being coerced into it by Epstein?

It seems to be a bit of a far fetched theory to me that this guy would meet a 17 year old through Epstein and not really be aware of what Epstein was doing, but it doesn’t really seem to be a defense of sexual trafficking, pedophilia or rape.

That being said this is from my reading of the above thread so maybe I’m not getting the full picture here.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#82

Post by new_realist » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 3:00 AM UTC

M2Ys4U wrote: post #32

aazaa wrote: post #14

I've seen some online cheering Stallman's resignation from MIT. I suspect they'll also be cheering about this resignation as well. But this is nothing to cheer about. Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry. It se…

>Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry. Defending the rape of trafficked children is not a "hallmark of scientific inquiry".

The line of Stallman apologists over the years is almost as long as Epstein’s.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#83

Post by Rebelgecko » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 3:00 AM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #16

jimrandomh wrote: post #8

Before jumping to criticize Stallman, be aware: there is a big difference between what today's round of headlines claim Stallman wrote, and what he actually wrote. Given the relatively clear-cut nature of the lies the press has told about him, I think he ought to be suing for libel.

What is the counter argument for what Stallman wrote? I've seen that the "press is going too hard on him", but, honestly, I think they were justified. What is the "big difference" to you? If someone, personally, said to me that that someone be absolved of a crime, because the other, coerced, party was "willing" at that moment, I'd seriously question their morals.

I'd say the big difference is that the press is accusing him of defending Epstein when in fact he's defending Minsky. Of course people may think that's still problematic, but that's not what the headlines are accusing him of doing.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#84

Post by simplecomplex » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 3:00 AM UTC

People have to have a path to redemption. Stallman apologized and admitted he was wrong. Why is it not acceptable to make a mistake with words? Isn't it impractical to expect everyone to never say something they regret? These are words we're talking about. It's not like Stallman raped a child.

Kicking him out of FSF and MIT seems quite excessive for somebody saying something and then apologizing for it. Whether they are Stallman, a student, or anyone really.

Do the people involved at FSF and MIT hold themselves to the same standard they're holding Stallman to? We'll surely find out because humans tend to say a lot of stupid shit over the course of their lifetime.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#85

Post by mikeash » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 3:01 AM UTC

mlindner wrote: post #58

Unfortunate witch hunt against an innocent, if strange, man. I could go on but people don't want to hear anything other than the hateful things that they believe.

Nobody’s burning him at the stake or putting him in jail. He can go on living a perfectly good life. What he can no longer do is act in a leadership role in the community and corrupt that community with his crap.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#86

Post by equalunique » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 3:01 AM UTC

M2Ys4U wrote: post #32

aazaa wrote: post #14

I've seen some online cheering Stallman's resignation from MIT. I suspect they'll also be cheering about this resignation as well. But this is nothing to cheer about. Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry. It se…

>Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry. Defending the rape of trafficked children is not a "hallmark of scientific inquiry".

That's taking what he said way out of context.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#87

Post by ddtaylor » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 3:01 AM UTC

I don't agree with many things RMS says, but I am not a fan of this cancel culture where character assassinations are orchestrated routinely.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#88

Post by Rebelgecko » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 3:01 AM UTC

ilikehurdles wrote: post #62

aurelian15 wrote: post #3

More information on‒what I guess‒is the relevant backstory (RMS making reprehensible statements related to the Epstein scandal) can be found (among other places) in this blog post [1] by Matthew Garrett (original source referenced in the post is [2]). [1] https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/52587.html [2] https://medium.com/@selamie/remove-richard-stallman-fec6ec21...

Is there an original source anywhere? Was this a private mailing list thread? I’d just like to see the content on its own not surrounded by a medium blog or vice commentary.

Page 7 of this: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6405929-091320191420...

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#89

Post by mullikine » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 3:02 AM UTC

There are different types of right, like there are different types of freedom. I would rather be Richard than any of the village idiots who are villifying him. I would rather be Batman and take the bad image for sticking up for what is right, and I would rather be Jesus than some moron casting the whip. There is unbias correctness and there is political correctness, libre software and gratis software. I understand, Richard. If only people were smart enough to realise they are villifying the best of us.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#90

Post by brian-armstrong » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 3:02 AM UTC

aazaa wrote: post #14

I've seen some online cheering Stallman's resignation from MIT. I suspect they'll also be cheering about this resignation as well. But this is nothing to cheer about. Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry. It se…

Er, sorry, no. A public mailing list is not the correct venue for this discussion. Supposing as you do that society currently holds the wrong opinion on "does sex with minors constitute sexual assault?", the right answer is unlikely to be hashed out on a MIT list for CS activities.

You also lend Stallman more weight than he deserves. His resignation will go unnoticed by all outside of our specific tech sphere and certainly will not "set a precedent that will absolutely lead to self-censorship" (???).

Should we cheer his resignation? It's undoubtedly a sad moment for him and his supporters, but Stallman's behavior quite likely has held back the FSF for some time. He's an ideologue, not a leader.