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DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

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Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#81

Post by christopoulos »

headmelted wrote: post #79
procinct wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s your preferred methodology to Agile? Waterfall?

I quite like this as a good resource: https://agilemanifesto.org/ . Whatever gets the work done and doesn't cause unnecessary burdens while adding no measurable value is good with me at this point. I'd make do with anything but Agile, which needs to be shot. Out of a cannon. Into the Sun.

Genuinely curious, what is it that you don’t like about Agile? I mean, the concept, the processes? The lack of something or too much of something?

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#82

Post by mongol »

procinct wrote: post #76
headmelted wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally I think DevOps is like religion As long as no-one is knocking on my door asking if I have five minutes to discuss Agile development methodologies. I could reasonably defend most of what people attach to the "DevOps" buzzword as sane practices most of us were already doing before the hoopla. Agile (with a capital A) is the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to the software industry. Kill off that…

What’s your preferred methodology to Agile? Waterfall?

agile, lowercase a, is not bad.

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#83

Post by snlnspc »

eropple wrote: post #23
LIV2 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terraform is great but if you want to change to a different cloud provider you pretty much have to rewrite everything

Terraform is okay , if you don't value things like "loops that aren't an awful hack", but in 2019 Pulumi is significantly better and their cloud-agnostic implementation actually kinda works okay.

Pulumi would be perfect if the community edition was simply self hosted without support vs free with a single user only. At a stingy small org, I have no hope of ever using it instead of simply installing Terraform when the starter edition excludes secrets management and the API.

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#84

Post by YawningAngel »

trollied wrote: post #75
YawningAngel wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want a database that is arbitrarily horizontally scalable, there aren't really good open source options. As a former employee it isn't clear to me that Monzo couldn't have used boring stuff for a while and switched to C* or some equivalent later when it was genuinely needed, but it's worked well enough for them that I'm not inclined to critique the decision post hoc.

Their last outage worries me greatly.

I think there's a clear critique of Cassandra in there, in that it shouldn't even be possible to configure nodes to serve data they don't have.

Monzo... It's very hard to say. I think based on the contents of the blog post they acted reasonably and competently (yeah, the test rollout was a badly designed test, but that's easy to say post hoc). The only fair basis for critiquing Monzo would be if they had notably more averages than is 'typical', and we don't have the data or conceptual framework required to do that. As a customer, I can't think of risks that Monzo exposes you to that aren't also present with other banks. I bank with them ¯\ _(ツ)_/¯

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#85

Post by mongol »

christopoulos wrote: post #81
headmelted wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quite like this as a good resource: https://agilemanifesto.org/ . Whatever gets the work done and doesn't cause unnecessary burdens while adding no measurable value is good with me at this point. I'd make do with anything but Agile, which needs to be shot. Out of a cannon. Into the Sun.

Genuinely curious, what is it that you don’t like about Agile? I mean, the concept, the processes? The lack of something or too much of something?

There are cult-like tendencies in part of the agile community. I don't see it in the teams I have worked in, but in forums on LinkedIn, by those that see their career as agile specialists, experts in coaching the true way to perform agile software development. Many of them see themselves as catalysts, and that they with clever questioning will make teams grow. They don't themselves want to have a delivery responsibility, but they want to stand on the sidelines and "coach".

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#87

Post by christopoulos »

mongol wrote: post #85
christopoulos wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely curious, what is it that you don’t like about Agile? I mean, the concept, the processes? The lack of something or too much of something?

There are cult-like tendencies in part of the agile community. I don't see it in the teams I have worked in, but in forums on LinkedIn, by those that see their career as agile specialists, experts in coaching the true way to perform agile software development. Many of them see themselves as catalysts, and that they with clever questioning will make teams grow. They don't themselves want to have a delivery responsibil…

That I can understand and I’ve seen that too. And now Scaled Agile Framework is coming in hot as the enterprise version.

I’m actually proud of the parts of agile we work with, which primarily enables us to react changing needs and priorities quickly (unlike heavy waterfall).

After 22+ years in the industry I’ve come to realize that any new concept or concept that gets traction (CQRS, Event storming, AI) will produce a religious following. It’s kinda sad, because causes as lot of noise and friction.

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#88

Post by crankylinuxuser »

awd wrote: post #44

I like to comment DevOps from a security perspective, a trend I noticed in my day job. Windows is/was often bashed for being insecure. Lots of that stems from the decades of development related to centralized management solutions. A default windows workstation in a domain setting will open a bunch of ports, a bunch of which can be used for command execution. The attack surface for this system includes, but is not lim…

Exactly!

I've talked that this idea of "devops" is terrifying. It turns a whole bunch of devs whose security mindsets are in "eh password1! is great" because of convenience. And it turns them into domain admins. Gates are good... Although that means in having "Dev" and "Sysad" as 2 different groups. And I as a sysad can and will actively say "NO" with a reason, because something didn't pass a sniff test.

And with the whole AWS push on everything, do you know what else it does? It gives the devs an unlimited line of credit that company has to pay for. Nowhere before did sysads, devs, or other non-manager and non-C-level have unfettered access to the company wallet. And right now, if you have IAM access in AWS, you do.

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#89

Post by walshemj »

irrational wrote: post #18

This article was frustrating to me. When it started out in the mid-90s (which is when I started my career also), I thought our experiences would be more aligned. However, I've never worked with an operations team. In all the places I've worked I've been expected to do everything from setting up servers (originally physical servers, later cloud servers), hardening them, installing software, optimizing the software, in…

And its also written from a very recent perspective, arguably I was formally working in devops in the 80's

I was hired as development team member partially as I was a sysadmin on the hardware we were using, our team both wrote the code but also the entire JCL infrastructure that managed the compilation linking, deployment and the running of code across the cluster of 16 or 17 systems.

On of my friends, an IBM guy from the operations side was shocked that we as developers where allowed to deploy and run our own code.

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#90

Post by walshemj »

jascii wrote: post #70
peterwwillis wrote: post #3

Nailed it. I also got a chance to work in such an organization in the 00's, where dev and ops closely aligned with each other's work to produce truly reliable, repeatable, fast, quality products, often. It was fantastic. Nobody would say "oh but you can't do that, that's not Infrastructure as Code!" They would say, "what can we all do to make this better?"

In the 90's and 00's I was responsible for maybe 20-30 servers, now I am responsible for somewhere around the 2000 mark.. While "oh but you can't do that, that's not Infrastructure as Code!" sounds lame, and your co-worker should learn to be a better communicator, things need to be reproducible when working with more complex systems and that calls for more rigorous review practices. Please consider this: It's our pag…

In my experience ops call the developers when something breaks overnight in any case.
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