Burnout is real – how to avoid it • Hacker News Board

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#81

Post by grecy » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 5:11 PM UTC

vfc1 wrote: post #5

Burnout is an inevitable consequence of the modern workplace for a lot of people. A lot of those who don't have any problem with burnout are the ones burning out other people. In the modern workplace, workers are often given a task without being given the good conditions to take it through, or a good overview of the context that the task is part of. A good percentage of the tasks but not all are hot potatoes, and it…

> Burnout is an inevitable consequence of the modern workplace for a lot of people

I agree 100%

For me, I found two workable solutions.

1. Get to work at 6am and get a ton done before 8am, or stay after 6pm and get a ton done. I basically write off the hours of 8am-5pm, knowing I'll achieve essentially zero due to meetings, interruptions, 'urgent' emails, etc.

2. Get to work at a normal time, put my stuff on my desk, reply to a couple of emails so people know I'm around, then I take my laptop and sit in a local coffee shop with headphones on. I can get actually 6 hours of work done in an 6 hour stretch. I'm not far away from the office if I must attend an 'emergency' meeting, but I'm not at my desk getting interrupted every 13 minutes.

Usually the success of the second one depends on if your manager respects you actually getting work done.

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#82

Post by mikelyons » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

Balanceinfinity wrote: post #60

Step 1: TAKE YOUR VACATION!! - every minute allowed, every year. If they won't give you a chance to recharge your batteries, look elsewhere.

And do what with it? For many of us burnout is tied to depression is tied to lack of a mate, hobby, social circle, life purpose. What outside of work is even worth doing? Seems like all I can think about outside of work is how badly I just want this all to be finished.

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#83

Post by mikelyons » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

notus wrote: post #31

This is just really generic advice that most people would come up with themselves by thinking about it for a while. I feel like this a constant problem with these advice blogs. I've learned so much from books like How to win friends and influence people, feeling good, meditations, etc. Yet I rarely ever see that advice repeated anywhere, they just go for really low hanging fruit and not a lot of thought is put into i…

Original thought is too expensive for blogs that have to churn out topical content to make ad revenue, so they become consolidations of common sense.

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#84

Post by qntty » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

Balgair wrote: post #76

JeanMarcS wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the exact same thing reading this. Average healthy sleep time is 8 hour a day. Even if it's less for some, this professor can be disturbed when he eats ? When he is in his shower ? Seems strange to me.

Depends on the discipline. Math professors aren't known for showering :)

Given how many math problems are solved in the shower I would think it would be the other way around

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#85

Post by pier25 » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 5:22 PM UTC

As someone who hasn't taken a vacation in almost 4 years... yeah this sounds familiar.

Thankfully I'm ending my current job in a couple of weeks and will take a couple of free months before starting my next adventure.

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#86

Post by dredmorbius » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 5:25 PM UTC

vfc1 wrote: post #18

JulianMorrison wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much, the answer to this kind of thing is unions. The employer is going to feel free to treat you like a replaceable cog to be run over speed until the teeth strip - unless enough people like you can coordinate, to force them to the negotiating table. And unless you vote for politicians who will have your back.

Yes, I think unions under some form are sorely needed for this profession, as well as a recognized ethics code, like it happens in professions like medicine or accounting. If we are going to be treated as factory workers, we should defend ourselves as factory workers by creating unions. Unfortunately, due to the volatility of tech skills and the overuse of one-month contracts, I don't see this happening anytime soon,…

More guilds than unions, but yes.

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#87

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #38

squeaky-clean wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sprints also have a specific meaning in Agile/Scrum vocabulary which should be pretty common around here. That's like suggesting github promotes physically aggressive behavior because it's centered around pushing. Nothing about a sprint in Scrum terminology is meant mean an unsustainable pace.

'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said. Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"' 'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected. 'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.' -- L. Carroll

[deleted]

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#88

Post by dredmorbius » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 5:29 PM UTC

aklemm wrote: post #72

dredmorbius wrote: post #45

Where and how specifically does Jira build in stress and burnout metrics and avoidance mechanisms into its tools and techniques? And when is it going to mandate a change of langauge in Scrum from "sprint" to some word vastly more reasonable in designating a staged, sustainable, work effort? The English language is in dire need of an idiom connoting the fox advising the henhouse. This post lacks all credibility.

"Sprint" isn't supposed to be sustainable. It acknowledges that for brief periods we set aside distractions/maintenance/cleanup and make progress and THEN back off to a state that lets us recuperate the whole environment. Or it should, anyway.

If an activity is not meant to be sustainable, then stop using a word literally meaning "A burst of speed or activity" for prolonged, iterated, no-reprieve workfactor increments.

(See above Humpty Dumpty "glory" quote.)

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#89

Post by gerbilly » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 5:38 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #81

vfc1 wrote: post #5

Burnout is an inevitable consequence of the modern workplace for a lot of people. A lot of those who don't have any problem with burnout are the ones burning out other people. In the modern workplace, workers are often given a task without being given the good conditions to take it through, or a good overview of the context that the task is part of. A good percentage of the tasks but not all are hot potatoes, and it…

> Burnout is an inevitable consequence of the modern workplace for a lot of people I agree 100% For me, I found two workable solutions. 1. Get to work at 6am and get a ton done before 8am, or stay after 6pm and get a ton done. I basically write off the hours of 8am-5pm, knowing I'll achieve essentially zero due to meetings, interruptions, 'urgent' emails, etc. 2. Get to work at a normal time, put my stuff on my desk,…

You overlooked solution a solution

3. Reduce the amount of work to be done. (Probably by more than half.)

Since when was taking what amounts to a six hour exam every single day acceptable?

Re: Burnout is real – how to avoid it

#90

Post by dredmorbius » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

ticmasta wrote: post #73

>> Job burnout is an epidemic Start of sub-title. def: a widespread occurrence of an infectious disease in a community at a particular time So a wide-spread, non-infectious phenomena that has been occurring... forever?, doesn't really meet the definition. I'm not debating this is a real thing nor that it may be more prevalent, but a bunch of generic tips that put the entire responsibility on avoiding burnout onto me…

The term "epidemic" can be used for numerous conditions, some directly related to biologically infectious conditions, some not. You can find mentions of epidemics of cancer or heart disease, not generally of infectious origin, or of violence or (as in this case), mental health.

The study of epidemiology hides its core principles well (most texts discuss statstical methods, rather than theoretical underpinnings), but they are: susceptible populations, adverse conditions, and vectors of transmission.

You can apply fundamental epidemiological methods to any phenomenon matching this general description. Generally, a vector involves some transmission factor which promotes an adverse outcome, and some transmission carrier, which communicates that outcome between affected instances.

To take a highly non-medical example: Iomega's Jaz drives, a removable, Winchester-style disk storage, in which platters and heads were separated, had a phenomenal capacity to create propogating media and drive failures: misaligned drives would damage heads, misaligned heads would damage drives. The condition could spread through an entire population of disks shared on a single drive, or drives in which disks were shared among systems. It was a phenomenally bad design. Disk/head misallignment was both the infectious agent and vector.

In public health, contaminants (radioactive materials, lead, asbestos, PM2.5, endocrine disruptors) can transmit adverse health outcomes among populations. Host-to-host transmission isn't generally prevalent (though some secondary contact may occur), but source-to-host most definitely is. Prions transmit MCD and YCS without a direct biological agent.

In the case of management and workplace factors, business organisation, management practices (or fads), and tools are transmission factors, and the educational, marketing, cultural, and ideological systems which promote those factors are the carriers.

TL;DR: Agile is a disease.