Why Clojure?

yes, immutable data is a core value of Clojure.

OP said no wrong, but think about it: Bitcoin also just stole the good parts from other software projects.

Really practical inventions usually gather the best ideas from a field.

Clojure has something like an extendable type system called Spec. We can create our own types lol

Oh man this talk... so incredibly good. The principle of simplicity vs easy is what drew me to Elixir, and what I'm starting to dislike about Rust.

In Erlang/Elixir, you have patterns, and interfaces which are fairly low level, but provide meaningful abstractions over common goals... I.e. we have OTP. OTP is fairly simple, and that doesn't mean it's easy, it's really not, but it can be simple once you're familiar with it.

Rust, on the other hand, is easy to get started with, the core of the language is fairly small (and relatively simple) but that's where the complexity starts to creep in.

It's so small, I have to constantly reach for a crate for common goals... There are tons, and they're fucking awesome, BUT they're easy, not simple, and my application's complexity grows exponentially relative to my familiarity each time I grab another crate.

I think it's easy ;) to say the Rust ecosystem has to contain the complexity it does, and making it easy is the best we can do, but with great challenges comes great reward... Batteries not included, yes, but at least you could know the size (spec) required for the ones you need? That's probably a shitty metaphor but I tried...

...

One more thought on this tirade, when Rich Hickey casually says that engineers should be working to remove complexity from the business... That hit me right in the feels. Too often do we get complex business decisions/goals and just accept them. We need to push back and help them simplify their goals... too often I've gotten some crazy request, where instead of implementing it, I pushed back to get to the root of the problem and ended up with something wildly simpler and better for both parties. When we push back, it shouldn't be to make something easy, it should be to make something simple. You can scale simplicity almost infinitely, but complexity will eventually come crashing down.

More on topic... Thanks for posting this talk, it and the article have inspired me, I'm gonna go try to write a bit of Clojure today. You should write some Elixir, or maybe LFE (Lisp Flavored Erlang), I think you'd quite like BEAM :)

Clojure's startup time is very slow compared to other languages, but we balance it with fully reloadable systems both on the backend or frontend.

Otherwise the speed is almost identical to the speed of native Java and native Javascript. Except when you experience the power of lazy structures, then Clojure is faster than native code.

I am quite familiar with Spec. In my few years of professional Clojure experience, working with people who write Clojure every day, and enjoy it, and advocate using things like Spec, I have never actually seen anyone do it successfully in practice.

I understand the idealist world view is seductive — we'll be discipined, we'll write the tests, we'll make good use of Spec, etc etc.

In reality, I have never seen this happen. Humans are lazy and undisciplined, so that's what I optimise for.