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Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

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Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#81

Post by ohaideredevs »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #64
consumer451 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a huge fan of obscene military spending, but the cancellation[0] of F-22 production must be one of the most boneheaded decisions I’ve seen in US military procurement. I must add the caveat that I have no security clearance so there may be other factors. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor > Service officials had originally planned to buy a total of 750 ATFs. In 2009, the program was…

I always wondered why they couldn’t have just used the F-22 for both the air superiority role it was originally designed for and the multi-purpose role the F-35 was made for. The F-22 is more capable in every way, and more survivable with dual engines. They would have needed to figure out vertical take-off/landing version of the F-22 but I’m sure that was not impossible. It may have looked more expensive on paper wit…

Oh, the other argument for the JSF is that it could be exported to allies, whereas the F-22 is US-only.

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#82

Post by drdeadringer »

wikibob wrote: post #21

This is pretty hilarious. So some consultants swooped in, there was 8 weeks of training, and now everything is going to go back to how it was. Source: seen more than one of these external “transformation” efforts. “ Through an eight-week Red Hat Open Innovation Labs residency, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics replaced the waterfall development process it used for F-22 Raptor upgrades with an agile methodology and DevSecOp…

> So some consultants swooped in, there was 8 weeks of training, and now everything is going to go back to how it was.

I used to work for Lockheed Martin. I believe it.

I found it so hilarious I was relieved when I finally got caught up in the layoffs.

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#83

Post by jki275 »

ohaideredevs wrote: post #76
jki275 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The F22 was designed in the 80s. It's old. It's fast, certainly the best in some aerodynamic ways, but nothing like the capability the JSF brings in computing technology. In addition, the threats anticipated that led to its development never materialized. That's why it was cancelled.

>but nothing like the capability the JSF brings in computing technology. What computing technology can't be put into the F-22? Iirc it has a much bigger radar housing, and EO DAS (fancy term for 360 IR / situational awareness) can be added to it. To answer the parent term - the F-22 was used for air-to-ground in the middle east, so it can definitely fill that role. There was also an attack plane/bomber variant propos…

JSF has sensors built into its skin. You don’t just retrofit sensors onto an LO platform.

Retrofitting new computing technology into an aircraft is a huge deal. Just getting a data link into it so it can talk to the rest of the DOD has taken over a decade and I’m not sure it’s even complete yet.

Yes, it’s old. That doesn’t mean it’s not useful, the F15 is far older and still in use and will be for decades, but it was more cost effective to put the money into the new platform instead.

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#84

Post by semantic_x »

wikibob wrote: post #21

This is pretty hilarious. So some consultants swooped in, there was 8 weeks of training, and now everything is going to go back to how it was. Source: seen more than one of these external “transformation” efforts. “ Through an eight-week Red Hat Open Innovation Labs residency, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics replaced the waterfall development process it used for F-22 Raptor upgrades with an agile methodology and DevSecOp…

Next week: this weeks sprint is behind schedule by 8 weeks, we need to push all sprints out by 6 months. Also we found some security vulns that need hot patched, which could either take 6 weeks or 6 months. We should probably bring the consultants back for another 12 weeks to get the ball rolling. We might be able to save a few weeks if we outsource some of the work to our subs in india...

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#85

Post by natpalmer1776 »

So a government contractor subcontracts another government contractor's new acquisition to do some unnecessary, yet likely expensive, consulting work that has no net benefit to the project.

Nothing to see here folks, just the mold poking through the cracks of our public sector.

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#86

Post by ohaideredevs »

jki275 wrote: post #83
ohaideredevs wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but nothing like the capability the JSF brings in computing technology. What computing technology can't be put into the F-22? Iirc it has a much bigger radar housing, and EO DAS (fancy term for 360 IR / situational awareness) can be added to it. To answer the parent term - the F-22 was used for air-to-ground in the middle east, so it can definitely fill that role. There was also an attack plane/bomber variant propos…

JSF has sensors built into its skin. You don’t just retrofit sensors onto an LO platform. Retrofitting new computing technology into an aircraft is a huge deal. Just getting a data link into it so it can talk to the rest of the DOD has taken over a decade and I’m not sure it’s even complete yet. Yes, it’s old. That doesn’t mean it’s not useful, the F15 is far older and still in use and will be for decades, but it was…

I don't mean to get into the weeds here, but what part of EODAS can't be added by literally putting a thermal camera (from the F-35 program) in several places on the F-22 and running wiring to it?

I completely understand that it interfaces with the helmet. I also know that it took ages for the F-22 to get a simple FLIR built in, but if even a fraction of the F-35 resources were directed at the F-22, this would all be more than doable quickly.

As far as I am concerned, the selling pitch of the F-35 is the STOVL and EODAS. At that point the F-22 could be fitted for carrier operations, because no one uses VTOL (or plans to) on the F-35 anyway except for moving it around parking lots with no ordinance.

Again, this is ignoring all the political info.

Also, to get more specific, I don't know of any "sensors built into its skin" - EODAS is just a bunch of little pods with thermal cameras and fancy computing. Obviously don't tell me if it's something that's not public knowledge.

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#87

Post by jki275 »

ohaideredevs wrote: post #86
jki275 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JSF has sensors built into its skin. You don’t just retrofit sensors onto an LO platform. Retrofitting new computing technology into an aircraft is a huge deal. Just getting a data link into it so it can talk to the rest of the DOD has taken over a decade and I’m not sure it’s even complete yet. Yes, it’s old. That doesn’t mean it’s not useful, the F15 is far older and still in use and will be for decades, but it was…

I don't mean to get into the weeds here, but what part of EODAS can't be added by literally putting a thermal camera (from the F-35 program) in several places on the F-22 and running wiring to it? I completely understand that it interfaces with the helmet. I also know that it took ages for the F-22 to get a simple FLIR built in, but if even a fraction of the F-35 resources were directed at the F-22, this would all be…

No.

The main function of the JSF is situational awareness. The F22 doesn't even have a functional data link yet. JSF has all of it built in from the beginning. Everything you add to an airframe costs millions of dollars, and there's no point in doing it.

STOVL is an important part of the JSF program. The F22 isn't capable of doing STOVL or carrier operations, you don't refit a non-CVN capable aircraft for carrier operations.

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#88

Post by p_l »

jki275 wrote: post #87
ohaideredevs wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to get into the weeds here, but what part of EODAS can't be added by literally putting a thermal camera (from the F-35 program) in several places on the F-22 and running wiring to it? I completely understand that it interfaces with the helmet. I also know that it took ages for the F-22 to get a simple FLIR built in, but if even a fraction of the F-35 resources were directed at the F-22, this would all be…

No. The main function of the JSF is situational awareness. The F22 doesn't even have a functional data link yet. JSF has all of it built in from the beginning. Everything you add to an airframe costs millions of dollars, and there's no point in doing it. STOVL is an important part of the JSF program. The F22 isn't capable of doing STOVL or carrier operations, you don't refit a non-CVN capable aircraft for carrier ope…

F-22 has datalinks, including the one datalink that appears to be ultimately the only one really used - Link-16.

F-35's MADL wasn't added to F-22 because Air Force deemed it "not ready to use" and cited maturity problems with the whole stack.

A lot of JSF sensors are to patch over its horrible pilot situational awareness, mostly a legacy of the STOVL variant (which is responsible for most issues) and which exists only because USMC needs it to fight against Imperial Japanese Army in Guadalcanal. Few other purchases of F-35B happened because building a proper carrier would result in political shitstorm (Japan) or because F-35B being supposed to let build carrier more cheaply and when its issues became known it was too late to refit the carrier with catapult (UK).

As for refitting a non-carrier aircraft to be a carrier aircaft - F-18 is the best known case, and its competitor was navalized F-16. As far as I know, there was carrier variant of F-22 in the works as well.

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#89

Post by tibbydude »

mtmail wrote: post #9

"By knocking down walls and creating open spaces to work in its new dojo, [...] team now has a dedicated space for continued learning, thinking and problem-solving [...]" I imagine a couple of couches and a book shelf in a corner.

Couches are so 90's ... creative thinking needs beanbags.

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#90

Post by p_l »

vipa123 wrote: post #3
ThreeFx wrote: post #2

Am I reading this correctly as Kuberetes-powered fighter jets? That's certainly not going to shoot anyone in the foot...

I agree that Kubernetes-powered fighter jets is a bad idea, bordering on catastrophically bad. That said, I assume they'll be using Kubernetes as a development and test platform -on the ground- to produce some form of binary output that would go on the plane.

Avionics software on new systems is, in a way, logically similar to kubernetes actually :)

Instead of having separate computers, you now tend to have fewer "servers" which run multiple modules in isolated partitions, communicating over the common network using unidirectional messages; whether using SAE AS5643 - aka IEEE-1394 - like in F-35 and X-47, or over mutated Ethernet known as AFDX (A380, A350, B787).

However a big portion of JSF issues is also in ground software - there's a dedicated set of platforms required to operate F-35, which is also known for infamously depending on connectivity to Lockheed servers or the airplane stops working.

The system involved, ALIS, had als infamously took more time to deploy during a test squadron redeployment than the whole redeployment - which I guess they might be trying to speed up using Kubernetes.

From what I heard ALIS appears to still be done the same style as certain other logistics software from lockheed back in 2010, and that doesn't say anything good.

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