As incomes rise in China people will demand other things from the government than food, shelter and a comfortable middle class life. Hong Kong was ahead of the rest of China since they have been living pretty liberal under UK rule and were more prosperous. Whatever they do in Hong Kong now will not stop from things happening all over China at a given point.
Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
81–90 of 426 posts
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#82Oh man they absolutely cannot come into Hong Kong, it would be a totally stupid move. Honestly in the grand scheme of things they can afford for Hong Kong to just descend into chaos and completely collapse economically or whatever. The minute they send troops over the whole picture changes and everyone loses
> they absolutely cannot come into Hong Kong, it would be a totally stupid move Strategically, for China? Yes. Politically, for Xi? Maybe not. Remember that Xi is a dictator. Moves that boost him in the short term at China’s long-term expense are on the board.
Not to mention a military takeover of Hong Kong would generate valuable data and experience that could be usefully applied to an invasion of Taiwan.
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#83Sigh. Hopefully we won't get a repeat of the Tiananmen square massacre. I've not seen any nations speak out about the HK protests. Unlike, say, when many expressed support for the Arab Spring.
Support of Arab spring reflected ignorance and naivety, not something we need more of.
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#84Agitators will be sent in to commit acts that justify a military takeover. It's a familiar plot.
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#85Why aren't we talking more about the history of HK's creation, namely the Opium wars? I suspect that the majority of people that feel strongly about China's behaviour don't actually have any idea what the British did to China in the middle of the 19th century, namely: in the style of a mafia get 10s of millions of Chinese addicted to Opium and then go to war with them when China tried to put an end to the trade. It i…
What does that got to do with anything? Why do people keep bringing centuries old examples of the shortcomings of western civilization, to apologize for the very present disregards against human rights in many non-western countries?
Specially in a case where the legacy that is being put in question is exactly the culture of respect for human rights, civil liberties and democracy brought by an Western nation, that is now under threat by an autocratic power: The central Government of China.
There is a term coined specifically for that: Whataboutism
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#86Why aren't we talking more about the history of HK's creation, namely the Opium wars? I suspect that the majority of people that feel strongly about China's behaviour don't actually have any idea what the British did to China in the middle of the 19th century, namely: in the style of a mafia get 10s of millions of Chinese addicted to Opium and then go to war with them when China tried to put an end to the trade. It i…
>Why aren't we talking more about the history of HK's creation, namely the Opium wars?
Because the people of Hong Kong have no responsibility for the Opium Wars perhaps? I'm not sure what you are actually suggesting.
>The real "crime" here is that we're so morally bankrupt and out of touch with history that all we can do is watch and tweet hashtags.
Ok, what do you want to do?
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#87Strange how putrid governments find members of society happy to oppress other members of the society. Such as those soldiers happily waiting to execute orders against the freedoms of their fellow citizens.
Not everybody agrees with your politics. And not everybody who disagrees with the Western, liberal view of the world has been brainwashed. Maybe those soldiers want one China.
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#88As incomes rise in China people will demand other things from the government than food, shelter and a comfortable middle class life. Hong Kong was ahead of the rest of China since they have been living pretty liberal under UK rule and were more prosperous. Whatever they do in Hong Kong now will not stop from things happening all over China at a given point.
Never underestimate the persuasive power of a regime murdering several thousand people in plain sight. I remember thinking the same thing about the Arab Spring in 2009.
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
> they absolutely cannot come into Hong Kong, it would be a totally stupid move Strategically, for China? Yes. Politically, for Xi? Maybe not. Remember that Xi is a dictator. Moves that boost him in the short term at China’s long-term expense are on the board.
Xi is very much a dictator, but he also needs money to maintain his dictatorship. HK for all its faults and bads is still quite important to the Chinese economy. That's why we haven't become Xinjiang, IMO.
I think hks importance is extremely arguable. Hks gdp is barely 3 percent of china's with a stalling growth rate. I've worked in both Shanghai and Hong Kong and I can say a lot of the large cities are much much nicer in China now. You also have a lot things like hackathons and events where you see lots of young creative people who really want to make things. In Hong Kong the culture is more towards looking good in a suit and networking, a side effect of the dominance of financial industry.
Personally I think that ship has long sailed and it's not particularly anyone's fault.
Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong
#90I'm praying for those poor people, it looks like they will have their freedom taken soon.