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US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

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Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#81
post #44

Tactile is better. That's also the lesson electronic musicians found out over time. You can still use MIDI/VST/synthesizers/DAWs and so on -- but having tactile control over them is better (faster and more expressive) than a tiny, or even a large, screen. And of course, you can combine both methods (but not when you're just given a screen).

I also still prefer a slide out keyboard on my phone... and I don't care if it's twice as thick

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, when you take your drivers test in the US, you have to demonstrate your ability to know where all those functions are before you even pull away to start your test.

This depends on the state/region. There's no universal standard in the US, and some states definitely don't require the operation of all of these controls before the test.

Just because it's not on your test doesn't mean you shouldn't know how to operate your car properly. There's a lot not covered in each test that is still a requirement to operate a vehicle. In California, it is a requirement and all the roads are connected. Blaming a change in weather is unsafe. This is why we have so many accidents when it rains.

Do you freak out when it gets dark because there are 4 touchscreen buttons to press to turn your lights on? So why when it rains? If you wanna make excuses for "I got myself into a dangerous situation because I wasn't prepared" go ahead but when it endangers other drivers I have to be critical.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#83

> and that many were fatigued, with an average of 4.9 hours of sleep between the 14 crew members present. I suspect this played more of a role than any of the controls or procedures did. I had a friend in the Navy and he once explained the shifts he did to me and how utterly insane they were. I suspect leadership doesn't want to (or cant) fix the root cause (fatigue) and is happy to spend tax dollars to replace the s…

We have an example of how navy shifts work on HN by 'genkimind: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19101464

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Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you're making some very false choices between smarts/voice compatibility and physical controls. Physical buttons and dials for users to interact with that still can be changed by the system are wholly possible. For instance, a rocker switch that sits in the middle can be used to issue on and off commands, while being separate from say, a status light that lets you know whether the device is on or off. Whi…

> Physical buttons and dials for users to interact with that still can be changed by the system are wholly possible. Sure, but irrational. One of the largest benefits of physical controls is physical feedback, like being about to feel if you've reached the max cold/hot ceilings or the state of the switches. To make them voice compatible you have to remove that physical association (e.g. infinite spinners, or blind sw…

> Physical controls that have no physical state are the worst of both worlds.

This is so true. I absolutely hate the AC knob in my car. Apparantely, they thought it was good engineering to make it infinite.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, when you take your drivers test in the US, you have to demonstrate your ability to know where all those functions are before you even pull away to start your test.

This was not my experience in New York. You don’t have to demonstrate anything other than knowledge of where the turn signal, ignition, brake and gas pedal are.

[deleted]

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#86

I'm having trouble visualizing exactly how this works from the text, but it sounds like a total nightmare. Some sort of complicated list of steps for transferring control screens between different stations on the ship, and it's not clear why or when you do this at all. I'm guessing the Navy doesn't spend a lot of time on UI/UX, which is ironic since these long, high-stress shifts with lives on the line is exactly whe…

In my own experience, any software developed under government contract has horrendous UI/UX. Probably because it's hard to specify "don't suck and be pleasant to use" in terms of formal system requirements.

It’s complicated because it’s political. You have managers, politicians, project owners, project managers, business process consultants and the actual workers all influence decisions, and often the decision becomes some sort of compromise where everyone gets something because it’s, well political.

At the same time, the public sector doesn’t operate like the tech sector. We may have 2500 employees who spend 37 hours a week behind a screen, using various pieces of software to do their daily grind on the bureaucracy, but we have maybe 10 technicians to build/maintain/operate those 300 IT systems for the total of 7000 employees at 200 different locations on a network we also operate. With 10 people on staff, and political management looking to make it 9, no one can be specialised in UI/UX because you can build things without a great UI/UX. Even when you buy the development from a company who does have some UI/UX guy, the decision goes back to the compromise and messy decision making of all those different stakeholders.

I think we have gotten better at it over time though, but it’s probably never going to compete with the private sector where you need great UI/UX if your competitors have it.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Physical buttons and dials for users to interact with that still can be changed by the system are wholly possible. Sure, but irrational. One of the largest benefits of physical controls is physical feedback, like being about to feel if you've reached the max cold/hot ceilings or the state of the switches. To make them voice compatible you have to remove that physical association (e.g. infinite spinners, or blind sw…

> Physical controls that have no physical state are the worst of both worlds. This is so true. I absolutely hate the AC knob in my car. Apparantely, they thought it was good engineering to make it infinite.

At least you can find it without taking your eyes off the road. This works fine for fan power, where you know when to stop based on what you feel, but not so much for temperature, where you can’t immediately tell what’s right.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#89
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well user familiarity is important but not paramount. The Navy uses Xbox controllers in submarines and found that the learning curve for 19-year-old men is much better that way

This is different. The issue here wasn’t the use of a general-purpose device itself but that the device they used (a touchscreen) wasn’t the best fit for the task at hand. Even worse, multiple screens were able to control the ship at the same time which to me seems to be the root cause of the accident. A single touchscreen still wouldn’t have been ideal, but it would’ve still prevented the accident IMO. In the case o…

For another example in reverse: the Thrust master Warthog [0] HOTAS (hands-on throttle & stick, a controller for flight sims) is based on the A-10C controls. Part of this is for an immersive experience if one is flying a Warthog, but a large reason many people favor it is the excellent ergonomics. Fairchild & the Air Force spent a lot of design effort and thought on control placement and developed a very nice to use set of controls. Just like there are control schemes where a game controller makes perfect sense, aping actual aircraft controls is a great way to fly a pretend plane. Or on my case, a pretend spaceship. I've used an Xbox controller to control various robotics projects because there was no need to reinvent the wheel, and I can certainly understand why there is a niche market for controls to mimic cockpit controls.

[0] http://mobile.thrustmaster.com/node/812

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday I was driving back from Scotland to England, doing 70ish, when we ran into a really heavy thunderstorm. Went from good visibility to almost zero in seconds, and the only thing I could properly see was the crash barrier alongside the lane. I found myself desperately trying to see where the road was, simultaneously trying not to get rear-ended as I slowed up, switch on the rear fog lamps and hazards, max wipe…

You know, when you take your drivers test in the US, you have to demonstrate your ability to know where all those functions are before you even pull away to start your test.

Even if that were true everywhere, people drive vehicles other than the one they used for their drivers test in their lifetime.
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