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Terminating Service for 8Chan
81–90 of 1001 posts
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#82Does this start to open CloudFlare up to legal issues for all the sites they host? I was under the impression they were more of an infrastructure/utility type service, and weren't liable for what took place, the same way gun manufacturers aren't liable for shootings or gas stations for car crashes. But if now they're manually deciding who goes on their network and who doesn't, it seems like they're more responsible f…
They've kicked people off their service before for content based reasons (eg, Daily Stormer), so this changes nothing. In any case:
> I thought there was some sort of legal distinction if they were totally agnostic to what travels over their wires. Is that not the case?
Not as far as I'm aware, no. The closest thing I can think of is if they were discriminating based on people's membership in a protected class, eg, if they announced a strict "no female clients" policy. This is clearly vastly different.
From a PR point of view, yes, every time they kick someone off for being bad, the more their failing to kick someone off will be seen as an implicit endorsement. But again, that ship has sailed.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#83"the speed with which tech cos change after a bad PR cycle seems like solid proof that none of this is abt principles but abt trying to keep from making hard choices as long as possible. earlier today they argued that keeping 8chan within its network is a “moral obligation”" https://twitter.com/cwarzel/status/1158193462459506693
Cloudflare in the past was a staunch defender of free speech when people tried to get them to take down a website that was an outlet for pro-ISIS propaganda (I think the quote from the CEO was "A website is speech. It is not a bomb").
When they stopped hosting the neo-Nazi website they mentioned in the link, they made a big deal about how it was a one-off decision and they'll never again again stop serving a website because of its content. Clearly they've changed their minds about that.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, but Cloudflare needs talented engineers, and talented engineers don’t sign up to serve clients like 8chan. Software doesn’t run on one person’s contrarian politics.
Cloudflare serves many odious sites, such as https://godhatesfags.com/ . They only terminate service when some site gets a lot of heat in the news. I like to think I'm a pretty talented engineer. I've avoided using Cloudflare and I've avoided applying to them because of their wishy-washy stance on censorship. They are a utility. PG&E doesn't terminate electricity service based on what was said on a property. So too s…
There are already people doing that stuff. Given that's the case, why should they not act?
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#85A lot of not-so-subtle support for 8chan leaking into this thread. Cloudfare aren't a government. They aren't a democracy. I don't know why some people seem to think they should act any differently. If you own a notice board in the real world, and someone put something horrible on it, you would take it down. This is no different.
The problem is we live in a digital society, and comparing Cloudflare to a notice board is wildly reductionist.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#86Why does Cloudflare feel the need to take action here? Only a minority believe that 8chan is the culprit in creating these gunmen, and fewer people have called for Cloudflare specifically to shutdown 8chan. By staying idle the conversation would've moved onto gun control, but now they're going to make this round of shootings all about online community policy which IMHO is a futile scapegoat.
Is it just a scapegoat though? Allowing these groups of disaffected people does seem to be a significant part of mass killings.
There were a lot of ISIS inspired attacks until ISIS was destroyed. Which effectively shut down the community.
This entire age of frequent mass shootings coincides with the internet and media coverage in general.
I personally believe that this has more to do with the notoriety and following these attacks inspire than gun laws, which have always been very weak.
A lot of these attacks are similar to streaking imo, which basically stopped when the media coverage stopped.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, but Cloudflare needs talented engineers, and talented engineers don’t sign up to serve clients like 8chan. Software doesn’t run on one person’s contrarian politics.
I think you'd find a great many talented engineers don't share the same politics you do, and an even greater number who are far too apolitical for it to factor into their job search.
I think more engineers are realizing that if you've been working for Uber, Facebook, Twitter, and maybe now (or depending on how they act, maybe not) Cloudflare it severely curtails your future opportunities, both as an employee and socially.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#88A lot of not-so-subtle support for 8chan leaking into this thread. Cloudfare aren't a government. They aren't a democracy. I don't know why some people seem to think they should act any differently. If you own a notice board in the real world, and someone put something horrible on it, you would take it down. This is no different.
They are utility though. Have you thought about that people support neutrality/common carrier style behavior with 8chan existing being the acceptable price to pay and not 8 chan itself?
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#89It would be better if cloudflare terminated service for all media outlets. Every time you turn a mass shooting into a national spectacle, it inspires copycats in rapid succession as we've just seen. Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically). Keep it local news, don't publish the name of the killer, basically keep the story away from the front line…
> you signal a green light to all the other potential shooters that this is how you get attention.
As pointed out by an ever prescient Charlie Brooker almost ten fucking years ago. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4).
On a similar subject, The Samaritans publish very specific and thorough guidelines as to how to report and publish suicides (https://www.samaritans.org/about-samaritans/media-guidelines...) which are still ignored by many even if unknowingly.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#90A lot of not-so-subtle support for 8chan leaking into this thread. Cloudfare aren't a government. They aren't a democracy. I don't know why some people seem to think they should act any differently. If you own a notice board in the real world, and someone put something horrible on it, you would take it down. This is no different.
The problem is that a company named Noticeboardflare has practically monopolized protection of noticeboards, and that if you do not have their approval, your noticeboard is impractical to operate.