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Google and Mozilla are failing to support browser extension developers

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Re: Google and Mozilla are failing to support browser extension developers

#81

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

geofft wrote: post #44

> It is a regular occurrence to hear about open source developers selling their browser extensions, only for their users to be exploited later on by the new owners. ... We are witnessing the failure of browser vendors to recognize the value of our labor and the important role it plays in a healthy browser ecosystem. So this is an interesting philosophical question - the market value of the extension is the value of "…

There’s also a typical third way to compensate browser extension developers:

Can’t.

Take the developer of uBlock Origin and uMatrix, Raymond Hill, for example. He continues to refuse payment / donations.

Re: Google and Mozilla are failing to support browser extension developers

#82

Post by zzzcpan »

A lot of extensions are made because people need them for themselves, not to live of extension development. And this is something that can exist as a nice open source ecosystem with some oversight, like packages on a typical linux distro. All the development stuff can go into something like AUR on Archlinux, where users have to explicitly participate and accept more risk. And this is something not very evil browser vendor might be willing and be able to do. But creating incentives for extension developers is definitely the opposite of their plans, they'd rather kill extensions altogether.

Re: Google and Mozilla are failing to support browser extension developers

#83

Post by uponcoffee »

zaat wrote: post #46
asr wrote: post #13

On the one hand, this seems like a real missed opportunity by Mozilla. As Chrome reigns in extensions that conflict with Google's business model, this is a reason to use Firefox. BUT - extensions are also often the cause of a slow and frustrating Firefox experience, which then leads folks to talk about how Chrome is better-performing/faster (I've been guilty of this myself in the past). Mozilla needs to make sure Fir…

>BUT - extensions are also often the cause of a slow and frustrating Firefox experience, which then leads folks to talk about how Chrome is better-performing/faster IE (used to?) have this bottom notification warning about 'X plugin is slowing IE, would you like to disable it?'. Perhaps Firefox should add similar feature and notify users about slow plugins, maybe even with some actual data instead of a vague slowness…

Mozilla does this already, to a degree. Using the Dark Reader extension hangs some sites for several seconds and Mozilla asks me if I'd like to kill it

Re: Google and Mozilla are failing to support browser extension developers

#84

Post by anbop »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #57
throwaway5389 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's also why Chrome cracked down on extension APIs recently by restricting what is shared with the extension It'd be nice if they had 'trusted devs' or similar. Even if they provided a paid meatbag extension review service, I'd pay to get the plugins I use reviewed!

That's an interesting idea. I, too, would happily contribute to a funding pool to have a competent human analyze the extensions that I'm using. One would expect this to (loosely) allocate money to checking the extensions that are most used, so the ecosystem would benefit even for people who weren't contributing.

And corporations would pay a lot to have extensions security reviewed if they had a business use case.

Re: Google and Mozilla are failing to support browser extension developers

#85

Post by jefftk »

rifung wrote: post #74
eitland wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google would only benefit from ad/tracker blockers going away. In the long run, this might sadly be true, but I disagree for now. No way Google is doing this because of the goodness of their hearts. They do it because they haven't completely squeezed out all competitors yet. Removing or utterly crippling addons now would force users to realize what Chrome is while there still are options, meaning a huge chunk of th…

I work for Google, opinions are my own. > Sorry to all Googlers here for being so blunt, and feel free to point out one or more examples from the last few years where Google has prioritized their users above quarterly / yearly profits. No need to apologize =] An example that comes to mind is the current focus on accessibility. I think from an objective financial/engineering perspective, it's much preferable to just i…

"they can force ram down the throat" here means "they can forcefully ram it down the throat"

Re: Google and Mozilla are failing to support browser extension developers

#86

Post by stuartd »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #81
geofft wrote: post #44

> It is a regular occurrence to hear about open source developers selling their browser extensions, only for their users to be exploited later on by the new owners. ... We are witnessing the failure of browser vendors to recognize the value of our labor and the important role it plays in a healthy browser ecosystem. So this is an interesting philosophical question - the market value of the extension is the value of "…

There’s also a typical third way to compensate browser extension developers: Can’t. Take the developer of uBlock Origin and uMatrix, Raymond Hill, for example. He continues to refuse payment / donations.

Indeed: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Why-don't-you-accept-...

Re: Google and Mozilla are failing to support browser extension developers

#87

Post by userbinator »

stctw wrote: post #52
Causality1 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been trending that way for years now. Making a browser that does what you want it to do is way easier than making a browser that does what your users want it to do. Sometimes I wonder if the "iterate version integers every six weeks so our e-peen looks bigger" approach is to blame.

That's an interesting thought. It's almost like Chrome and Firefox have been in a "browser cold war" for years now, trying to outdo each other's version numbers, trying to entice users with greener grass rather than the stronger "attacks" of the IE-Firefox "browser wars" of the past, and one side trying to imitate the other. Chrome realized that if it jumped ahead in version number, it could gain a huge PR advantage,…

Chrome realized that if it jumped ahead in version number, it could gain a huge PR advantage, and then Firefox was forced to follow that pattern or appear outdated.

Personal anecdote, but of all the non-technical people I know (which I define as those who may barely know what a browser is, and only use the computer for browsing a tiny fraction of the Internet), none of them like the constant change, especially when it breaks their workflow, and those who do pay attention to version numbers think the rapid "version explosion" (to quote one) is completely silly. Like a lot of other things in life, they just put up with it because they're powerless.

I really wonder who the browser makers are targeting with the "move fast and break things constantly" attitude, because it's definitely neither the technical nor non-technical users I know.

Re: Google and Mozilla are failing to support browser extension developers

#88

Post by vfclists »

Why don't developers of addons like gorhill and piro accept donations and hand them out to other addon developers they consider worthy, or some other developers users consider worthy?

It will help addon developers or even bring new developers to support addons whose original developers want to move on to other things.

Re: Google and Mozilla are failing to support browser extension developers

#89

Post by irq-1 »

paulgb wrote: post #50
geofft wrote: post #44

> It is a regular occurrence to hear about open source developers selling their browser extensions, only for their users to be exploited later on by the new owners. ... We are witnessing the failure of browser vendors to recognize the value of our labor and the important role it plays in a healthy browser ecosystem. So this is an interesting philosophical question - the market value of the extension is the value of "…

As an extension developer who recently got one of these offers, your analysis is a good verbalization of my gut feeling on the matter. I turned it down, of course. While users may feel bad about extension developers not being compensated, I feel like the larger story here is that: - Companies are buying extensions for nefarious purposes, which presents a huge security risk. - Evidently, app stores are sufficiently ba…

> Evidently, app stores are sufficiently bad at detecting this that it remains profitable.

What percent of extensions connect/download from the internet? That could be an easy way to identify a much smaller group of vulnerable extensions. Make extensions request permission to connect, then you can see the smaller group and watch any new extensions that request the permission. Connections could also be domain restricted to a list defined before distribution (and IP connections banned.)

Also, Mozilla could force extensions to make requests through proxies it controls... although that would be a whole other issue.

Re: Google and Mozilla are failing to support browser extension developers

#90

Post by michaelmrose »

zzzcpan wrote: post #76
michaelmrose wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just never allow such a transfer force a new user to create a new name. Ensure this is part of the terms of service. Prosecute violators that is to say buyer and dev under cfaa and ensure a hefty fine is levied with prison time. Nefarious parties will find few sellers thereafter.

You forgot to mention a small detail: force every other country in the world to enforce your ridiculous laws.

Show whether extensions are certified by counties with similarly ridiculous laws and wait for that to become a required after the first 100 million people get pwned.
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