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You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

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Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#81

Post by swebs »

fhood wrote: post #19

As an end user I approve of the walled garden. I don't mind the limitations on other forms of payment. I think it helps prevent fraud and insecure transactions, and I like the freedom and ease of use that comes with knowing that apps on the ios store went through a fairly substantial review process. As a developer (though it has been a few years since I wrote code for mobile) Apple's tools, documentation and librarie…

>But 30% is really, really high

Interestingly, that's about the average income tax rate. I wonder if Apple and Uncle Sam both independently came to the same conclusion that that's the highest amount that they can get away with without hitting the tipping point.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#82

Post by post_break »

dangus wrote: post #34
post_break wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if they had a refund process like Android. I'd buy way more stuff. But because I can't try an app and make sure it's not fake or advertises it does x but really only does y I'm scrooge mcduck. I've bought way more apps on Android because of this.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084 Not as instant/universally approved as Google's system but there is a process.

That's clunky and annoying. Just being able to delete the app within 2 hours is what I'd like.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#83

Post by PascLeRasc »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #64
jordanpg wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are competing in the free market. Users are free to not use their software and there are many other choices. You seem to be objecting to the manner in which they compete.

> You seem to be objecting to the manner in which they compete. I absolutely am! There is such a thing as unfair competition. As I see it, Apple is using their existing dominance to create barriers to entry for new players. I'm free to avoid Amazon too, but as increasing amounts of society move to Amazon as the de-facto web store for everything, how reasonable is it to fully boycott them? Sure it's possible , but it…

Many of us are boycotting Amazon by accident, I don't think it's a substantial life commitment. What have you wanted to buy from Amazon that you can't find elsewhere?

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#84

Post by reaperducer »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #64
jordanpg wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are competing in the free market. Users are free to not use their software and there are many other choices. You seem to be objecting to the manner in which they compete.

> You seem to be objecting to the manner in which they compete. I absolutely am! There is such a thing as unfair competition. As I see it, Apple is using their existing dominance to create barriers to entry for new players. I'm free to avoid Amazon too, but as increasing amounts of society move to Amazon as the de-facto web store for everything, how reasonable is it to fully boycott them? Sure it's possible , but it…

Apple is using their existing dominance to create barriers to entry for new players.

The number one phone manufacturer is Samsung, not Apple. Huawei is number two.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#86

Post by techdragon »

Carpetsmoker wrote: post #35
gchokov wrote: post #2

I am happy buying stuff from the iOS store. It's convenient, quick and easy. No objection as an end user.

Apple doesn't allow me to buy anything on my iPhone, as I got my phone in New Zealand, have a British Revolut CC card and phone number, then was in the Netherlands for a while, and am now living in Ireland. I had to switch the region to Netherlands to install the (free) RyanAir app (why?!) which was rather annoying since then it started offering Dutch suggestions for stuff (which I don't want). I can't add my UK CC t…

From what I’ve heard, much of that kind of awkward regional nonsense is left over from the origins of iTunes as a music store which required heavy amounts of country specific logic dealing with per region restrictions as a result of licensing deals.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#87

Post by Wowfunhappy »

nerdjon wrote: post #9

>On no other platform would we accept a scenario where the owner of that platform dictated not only the tools developers can use, but restricted the ways they talk about their products and pricing. We would call it unfair, monopolistic, and overbearing. But on our smartphones, it’s just a fact of life. I am pretty sure game consoles have been doing this basically since their existence. None of them allow you to make…

I wish game consoles were open, but I don't care as much because they're single purpose. A PS4 is not designed to be your primary computer.

An iPhone, by contrast, will be many people's primary or even they're only computer. What does it mean for our society if a single company has control over what that computer can display?

I see this issue as broader than just competition—I think it's analogous to free speech.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#88

Post by Crinus »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #38
nothis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Maybe Apple intends to change that some day, but that's speculation, not reality. I'd say it's pretty obvious that this is a desired outcome on Apple's part. You can either wait until it's too late or bring it up before it's happening.

Based on what? Have Apple executives said anything on the matter? Even vague warnings? You're relying on your own interpretations of their intentions. Over the years, Mac's defaults have changed to protect inexperienced users via restrictions like Gatekeeper and SIP. Apple has never attempted to make any of these systems mandatory. All it takes is a few terminal commands to gain complete kernel-level access to my sys…

> Have Apple executives said anything on the matter? Even vague warnings?

Because companies never lie or say that "we're not going to do XYZ" until next week/month/year where they go "XYZ is the new awesome". Expecting companies to be honest is like placing a cat near a canary and expecting them to be BFFs, especially when the topic is something that people have negative concerns about.

It is MUCH better to be explicit and loud about what you do not want to see before it happens, than try to reverse a situation after it has already happened. You lose nothing by doing the former, even if there were never plans to do what you fear might happen.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#89

Post by Majromax »

jordanpg wrote: post #21
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great! Let the iOS App Store compete in the free market on its own merits. I suspect it will do quite well—it's installed on all phones by default, and consumers trust it (for good reason). The App Store should not be the only way to get software on an iPhone, sans literally hacking the device.

They are competing in the free market. Users are free to not use their software and there are many other choices. You seem to be objecting to the manner in which they compete.

> They are competing in the free market. Users are free to not use their software and there are many other choices.

Users are not free to use other software on Apple hardware.

The operative question is how we define the market. Is the operative market "all smartphones," or are iOS devices distinct enough to qualify as a market of their own?

The answer isn't clear to me, especially because there are a variety of soft barriers. Even if "all smartphones" is the relevant market, phones are expensive; it takes on the order of $1k to walk away from an iPhone X in favour of an equivalent Android device.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#90

Post by jperry »

leadingthenet wrote: post #71
jperry wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's not true. There's absolutely no restriction on game development machines except that the provided tools (probably) only run on Windows.

Well that by itself is a big restriction.

It's not an intentional one though, it's just what the tools happen to run on. Sony aren't going to come after you if you run their SDK in a VM or something.

Apple intentionally restrict developers to only use Apple hardware and software to keep the ecosystem contained.

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