I understand the broader extension security situation is pretty atrocious, but I like to think there's some small improvement from url-limited extensions like mine (that would otherwise exist as scripts that ask for plaintext credentials).
Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software
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Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software
#82Extensions are awesome but I think this article is a bit too optimistic. I mean I share the optimism but in practice a major challenge is the platform. Chrome for example has a ton of limitations: https://getpolarized.io/2019/04/05/Google-Will-Kill-Chrome-E... If you want to do anything significant you have to get their 'permission' and at that point they throttle your extension release updates. You can't just push a…
Not so long ago, people distributed software on physical media. Time to update was counted in months to years. This had a nice side benefit of people not being able to "test in production"; software either worked mostly well, or it didn't sell. That wasn't a bad thing, because it forced companies to do actual QA - something that today is increasingly being pawned off to end-users, with help of deeply invasive telemetry.
Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software
#83Not just browser extensions. I miss an API in all kind of software we use at work. No wonder the half of the companys in this world run on excel.
It's a thought I keep repeating that is probably worth expanding into an article - modern software eschews interoperability, and in particular, SaaS is based on preventing interoperability. What used to be a desktop application operating on an independent source of data (filesystem) now vacuums the data and offers it back over an official interface and an extremely limited and locked-down API.
Wrt. those APIs, note that what just a decade ago on desktop was considered normal interop, nowadays often requires the interoperating parties to sign contracts, adding a legal dimension that further shuts out end users.
Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
I make extensive use of the Tampermonkey (for javascript) and stylus (for css) extensions. I probably don't have access to some of the browser's APIs but it is easier to create and edit scripts with them.
Seconded. Both of those plugins are excellent for end-user improvements, because they let you simply add code to be run on a given site or set of sites. No nonsense with packaging and building and programming environments; you can just write the code you need in the browser, as you need it.
Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
The ad blocking changes also prevented blocking the request to the ad servers, which is what people were upset about (or at least, why I was upset). I don't remember seeing anyone be upset about anything related to browsing history.
No one was upset about a plug in not getting access to your browsing history. People were upset about the declarative ad blocking that took away some of the features that they ad blockers previously had and said Google was doing it to protect their business. I’m not going to defend Google’s overall business practices, but from what I understand, it’s the same type of architecture that Apple has had for four years and…
Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software
#86Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Adds friction. Ideally user-made extensions should be more trusted and easier to work with than Internet-sourced ones. I can understand that in practice, if user can make something, the user can also be convinced by an attacker to selfpwn through, but we ought to accept some level of that risk.
Why is adding friction for advanced cases a bad thing? How is the browser suppose to know whether the user wrote the extension or downloaded it from the internet? We already see what happens when users download extensions and toolbars willy nilly.
If you want the computer to be "bicycle for the mind", you want to reduce friction so that "advanced" use isn't really "advanced", but normal. See also Hypercard, or how people use Excel in offices, or secretaries that extended Emacs because they didn't know writing Lisp was "programming", or countless other stories of end-user improvements.
If you want the computer to be a digital television set, or a digital collection of appliances, then sure - let's lock everything down, so that you can only do what you're allowed to by the vendors, and only through means allowed by the vendors. This is the scenario in which you want to add friction to end-user "advanced" use.
> How is the browser suppose to know whether the user wrote the extension or downloaded it from the internet?
It cannot be done in general - if a user can do something manually, a sophisticated piece of malware running outside of the browser can simulate too. But I think there's ways to add warnings without increasing friction. Having to manually re-enable each and every user-created extension on browser restart is IMO way too much friction. Being shown a warning about those extensions on each browser restart, but keeping them running sounds more reasonable.
Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software
#88I would really like a browser which attempted to be extensible the way emacs is. No modern browser appears committed to extensibility as a key feature / differentiator.
Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure if you're talking about the recent Chrome drama, but if so, "geeks were up in arms" because the new architecture essentially neutered ad blockers through the limits imposed on the block lists.
That’s worked well for Safari for four years.
So now, when safari comes in with these changes that only add value compared to their previous offering (which again was substantially behind the competitors), users respond positively because the only users that remain don't know the difference between blocking the rendering of an ad and blocking the request to the ad server. So, when they hear "Ads are blocked", they don't understand the nuances that reveal to you that ads are not really blocked at all from a privacy perspective.
The reason Chrome didn't have a similar response is because the people who cared about these changes were already using chrome. So, when chrome announced an update that removes these privacy-protecting features, the users were knowledgeable enough to realize what the changes actually meant from a privacy perspective, and so responded poorly.
And even if the users were the same, safari added a feature (you can now kind of block ads in safari, compared to the zero adblocking you could do before), whereas chrome is removing a feature (you can no longer block requests to ad servers, something you could do for years). So of course the reaction to safari will be at worst lukewarm, because compared to the previous editions of safari it was an improvement.
Re: Browser extensions are underrated: the promise of hackable software
#90I believe many people should attempt to create their own web extension, even if they don't publish it. In my younger years, I used to crack and hack software just for fun. Those were my Softice years. Later, when Opera was not Chromium based, I also had several site customisations, since it was very easy to add my own JS and CSS to any web site. Nowadays, I have 4 extensions created and tailored for my needs. One tha…
Besides having to do it on every restart, that’s a good thing. It should be convoluted to do unsafe operations to protect the average user but allow the advanced user flexibility.