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Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

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Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#81

Post by chrisco255 »

mbowcutt wrote: post #76
chrisco255 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not getting how that's possible at all. An ice age would be far more devastating to the human race than a warming period. Crop yields are up: 1) https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornyl... 2) https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyl... Ok, so food looks safe and secure. Um, lets see, what are the other basic needs? Shelter? Water? We've had the rainiest year in 125 years: https…

While it's true that there's an abundance of water, the issue is that there's limited drinking water. You can't survive on drinking ocean water. There's currently no energy-efficient process to remove salt and other impurities from unpotable water. That's a real issue. Increased rainfall could be good, but could cause flooding and doesn't do much benefit when it's acidic.

Well we really don't have very good predictions for how much rainfall will occur over the next century, but we have no reason to believe that droughts will become standard. Especially since we just experienced record rainfall in the midst of the 4th hottest year in modern records.

There are ways to remove salt from ocean water. It's just almost always more expensive than extracting from the widely available fresh water sources on the planet.

As long as the water cycle is going, we'll still have fresh water.

Rainfall is good, but flooding is a localized issue. It's not a global concern. CO2 doesn't cause acid rain.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#82

Post by NeoBasilisk »

jasonless wrote: post #66

Has anyone seen predictions that would provide a good estimate of when everyone would die? My sense is if we can surface this data to poor people quickly they might have time to save money and move to Northen Canada where most are saying the weather would be perfect as the climate heat average index increases. The more we share this on FB the faster we can save everyone. I think we can all agree rich people can stay…

The trouble is that life can get so much worse without everyone dying.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#83

Post by AnssiH »

RickS wrote: post #58
odiroot wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you pay to install and maintain AC if we (in Central Europe) literally have 2 weeks of real hot summer (about a month recently though)? It would literally be a waste of money.

Window mounted AC units are $100 - $200. It sits in a closet except for the 2 months a year that Seattle requires AC. A proper central air system would be overkill, but the small one is worth it. I wonder if window / removable units factor into the DOE's 75% number. From a real estate recordkeeping perspective, my home does not have AC, despite the previous owner permanently building a window unit into the side of th…

My understanding is that window mounted A/C units do not fit well into typical European windows that swing (instead of slide which I believe is common in US). Or maybe there is some other reason (e.g. permit stuff) for why I don't really see them.

This is what a typical catalog of A/C units looks like in Finland on couple of the largest online retailers:

- https://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/catalog/10597c/Ilmastointila...

- https://www.gigantti.fi/catalog/kodin-tuotteet/ilmastointi-j...

Most ones are $500+ and out of stock for this summer, though I do see at least one "cheap" €499/$550 unit that is still in stock on the second link (Domair DOM100380). The more expensive ones and split heatpumps seem to be in stock as well.

I had a split A/C / heatpump installed in my apartment ~5 years ago for ~$2000 inc. installation. No permit was needed from the municipal facades committee as it is not visible from the outside (outdoor unit sits on balcony), just a permission from the housing company as a hole had to be drilled for the pipes. Without A/C indoor temperatures of well over 30°C (86°F) were typical for weeks during summers.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#84

Post by andrewstuart »

chrisco255 wrote: post #50
andrewstuart wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on your wavelength. The biggest, most gigantic problem, amongst many, is that the food supply seems in serious danger.

No, it's not at all. Look, crop yields are way up in the past few years: Rice yields are up 40% since 1988: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyl... Corn's up 60%: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornyl... Wheat is up 48% since '88: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/wwyld.... Cattle inventory looks steady: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Cattl…

You're giving historical stats.

These are effectively irrelevant because they are from the time when the climate was still largely the same as it has been for hundreds of years.

The question is - what will be the yields in a world in which the seasons are disrupted?

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#85

Post by jachee »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #63
chrisco255 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not getting how that's possible at all. An ice age would be far more devastating to the human race than a warming period. Crop yields are up: 1) https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornyl... 2) https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyl... Ok, so food looks safe and secure. Um, lets see, what are the other basic needs? Shelter? Water? We've had the rainiest year in 125 years: https…

> We've got tons of resources for energy (more than ever in history). Europe is already past its peak, and it already has some effects on its economy. (GPD is roughly proportional to the energy we spend: less energy, less stuff.) Unless we have some technological breakthrough, available energy will go down, and the economy will soon follow. Malthus was wrong only because we found fossil fuels, allowing our crop yield…

But it is when we should do something, and stop debating whether anything is happening.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#86

Post by GordonS »

RickS wrote: post #58
odiroot wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you pay to install and maintain AC if we (in Central Europe) literally have 2 weeks of real hot summer (about a month recently though)? It would literally be a waste of money.

Window mounted AC units are $100 - $200. It sits in a closet except for the 2 months a year that Seattle requires AC. A proper central air system would be overkill, but the small one is worth it. I wonder if window / removable units factor into the DOE's 75% number. From a real estate recordkeeping perspective, my home does not have AC, despite the previous owner permanently building a window unit into the side of th…

Just had a quick look in the UK, and the cheapest decent AC unit I could find was around $450 USD, and that was for a standalone unit (couldn't even find a window mounted one).

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#87

Post by mirimir »

noir_lord wrote: post #69
mirimir wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The northern parts, sure. Also northern China. The Arctic could become the new Mediterranean.

Under what scenario would the temperature of the artic shift by more than 30C over the whole year... That’s silly.

Why would that be necessary?

They grow lots of wheat in the US upper midwest, and it gets damn cold there in the winter.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#88

Post by loup-vaillant »

andrewstuart wrote: post #60
majormajor wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first step in that is to loosen up your certainty that only via government can anything large scale happen. If you want to do that, you're gonna need to present some plausible alternatives... otherwise you're not truly "challenging" anything so much as saying "this is a belief you have that I will not provide any evidence to counter but merely point out."

I don't agree that I need to come up with anything beyond raising the idea that we should stop thinking that government can/will solve this. Once many people come to accept the truth of this, many minds will think in directions other than obsessing about government and what it is not doing. People tend to disagree very strongly with new ideas. You can see that right here - this thread is voted to the bottom of the HN…

> I don't agree that I need to come up with anything beyond raising the idea that we should stop thinking that government can/will solve this.

Oh yes you do. Certainly you think we can have an alternative to government for a reason? Care to share that with us?

Besides, government or no, the only way to fix the problem is through collective action. Not destroying our environment needs to be a social norm. Whatever is required to stop the current train wreck needs to become mainstream. Otherwise, we'll just continue our merry way until our civilization collapses in a couple decades. Worst case, I'll be alive to see it.

So. Besides begging our governments to do something, what do you propose? Overthrow them? Obsolete them? Ignore them? How? What would we need to succeed?

We can vote with our wallets (or feet) all we want, if we don't get over 80% of the population onboard, it just won't work.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#89

Post by save_ferris »

crispyporkbites wrote: post #67
xwdv wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the world were a fine place worth fighting for, maybe you’d have a point. But increasingly, I just look around, see the news, see the social media, and think why bother? Humanity will never be anything more than this. Things seem to be wrapping up, don’t have kids, don’t try to save the world, just savor what is left till it’s gone. In the coming decades we will begin to see a loss in the knowledge of mankind, as…

Do you live on the same planet as me? The world is an incredible place and gets better every day! I look at my children and their experiences growing up and it’s far better than mine ever were. If I had the choice I’d be born today.

I respectfully disagree here.

The US has seen a sharp decline in children earning more than their parents. 90% of people born in 1940 earned more than their parents, compared to just 50% in 1985, a trend that we simply aren't doing enough to correct[0]. We're on our way to a new gilded age, but perhaps your kids will among the fortunate and not of the "useless class", as Yuval Harari would say.

As technology and AI continue to progress, it's going to become harder to educate and train the workforce, and perhaps more importantly, re-train them as human skills continue to fall into obsolescence. I look at my baby nephew and hope that he'll be able to find solid-paying work one day, but that just isn't a given anymore.

0: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/09/504989751...

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#90

Post by dfinninger »

rndgermandude wrote: post #78
pizza wrote: post #37

I recall reading a CNN scrolling ticker headline about the current European heatwave that said ~5% of European homes/offices have AC. The DOE says 3/4 of American homes have AC, and furthermore, AC uses 6% of all electricity generated in the United States, quite staggering imo and a lot more than I would have expected. Without AC, a lot of America would just be too unbearable to support some major communities. [0] ht…

The inside of my apartment peaked at 28°C when it was 40+°C outside. No AC. While that is still a little uncomfortable, I can power through that it it's just a week or two a year and blast a fan, and take a cold shower or two. As for some window-mounted (temporary) AC, no chance, I'd have to get permission to "build" it from the city first, which I won't unless it's a really good permanently installed one (so it cann…

I have an AC unit on rollers that has a hose out the window[1] to take the bite out of those hot days. Although I've recorded 38C inside my house... Seems like you insulation is a bit better.

[1] https://www.homedepot.com/b/Heating-Venting-Cooling-Air-Cond...

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