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Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

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Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#81

Post by turbinerneiter »

hobofan wrote: post #79
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because when it comes to anything cyber-related, the German government, like most big companies there, is a dinosaur, greatly inferior to it's British and Swiss counterparts.

I'm not sure what the social aspects in Britain and Switzerland are like, but in Germany, working for the BND or other governmental cyber security institutions is frowned upon in the cyber-security circles (at least that's my view from someone not too deep in the field).

Yeah, because the BND is the enemy. They are the ones who keep the vulnerabilities open instead of closing them. We have the CCC to trust in.

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#82

Post by oblio »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #69
kriro wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much agree with this sentiment regarding hardware/culture. Also the salaries are acceptable (imo) compared to fairly high paying US jobs if you compare real working hours (vacation time, real 40h workweeks etc.). With a family there's even more benefits. Cost of living also tends to be fairly low (with a high quality of life) compared to higher paying places.

High paying American bigcorps mostly have perfectly fine work life balance. Getting double the vacation time (6 weeks instead of 3) when I moved from the US to Germany was very nice, but going back I'll have 5 weeks, which isn't too bad.

> Getting double the vacation time (6 weeks instead of 3) when I moved from the US to Germany was very nice, but going back I'll have 5 weeks, which isn't too bad.

I keep hearing this. Yes, you will get 5 weeks. But what about your wife, your uncle, your friends? In Germany they're all guaranteed to have the same number of days off, access to healthcare, etc. When you have kids you have a bunch of weeks/months off before the child is born and more after.

In the US, as long as you're young, healthy, rich and selfish, life is grand :D

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#83

Post by mrep »

tpush wrote: post #44
kayoone wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Salaries of 70-90k EUR for Senior devs in Berlin are absolutely achievable and combined with the quite low cost of living in Berlin you probably have more fun money than anywhere in Europe as a developer.

But not nearly as much as you'd have in the US, probably.

Pretty much guaranteed. Even startups pay more than that and GAFAM pays 150,000 to new grads and 300,000-350,000 to senior engineers [0].

[0]: https://www.levels.fyi/

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#85

Post by rb2k_ »

PinguTS wrote: post #74
paganel wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state of the German IT industry outside of a few select places (Berlin, mostly) is what makes me very pessimistic about the future of its car industry. They (meaning the big 3: VW, BMW and Mercedes) apparently still think that building the best engines/transmissions and being the best at putting them all together is all it takes in order to make a modern car, unfortunately I think EVs will be more about software…

Funfact: more than 30% value in a car is software, which is highly interconnected via various type of networks namely, LIN, CAN, MOST, FlexRay, Ethernet. Most current premium cars have more than 10 of those networks and around 100 to 130 ECUs that talk to each other. So much about: they don't know about software. BTW: The difference between IT and automotive aka embedded is that embedded should work even without DevO…

Having worked at a German company (in Germany) that creates tooling for that kind of software development.

They had a huge smalltalk program that created embedded C code (AUTOSAR/MISRA if I remember correctly). Tests only ran manually and the coverage wasn't particularly high. I don't recall any automations that would have stopped you from saving new code that breaks tests to the smalltalk image.

Even though it 'worked', I wouldn't say this whole system excelled at what it did. Lots of manual QA.

So technically it worked, but it certainly was in poor shape from an automation perspective. It was my job as the mostly unsupervised intern to fix that. Granted, that was 10 years ago, but talking to some of my friends around Stuttgart, things move at a glacial pace :)

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#86

Post by colinmhayes »

adrianN wrote: post #51
tpush wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But not nearly as much as you'd have in the US, probably.

Rents are a lot cheaper in Berlin. You don't need a car either. It's also a nicer city in general, I feel a lot safer in Berlin than in San Francisco.

You don't need to live in the valley. I make twice that much in Chicago which is very comparable to Berlin price wise.

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#87

Post by ulfw »

odiroot wrote: post #68
paganel wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state of the German IT industry outside of a few select places (Berlin, mostly) is what makes me very pessimistic about the future of its car industry. They (meaning the big 3: VW, BMW and Mercedes) apparently still think that building the best engines/transmissions and being the best at putting them all together is all it takes in order to make a modern car, unfortunately I think EVs will be more about software…

> The state of the German IT industry outside of a few select places (Berlin, mostly) If Berlin IT industry is a golden standard I'm really not very hopeful for Germany.

It is. And yes, there is no reason to be hopeful.

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#88

Post by trevyn »

paganel wrote: post #80
PinguTS wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funfact: more than 30% value in a car is software, which is highly interconnected via various type of networks namely, LIN, CAN, MOST, FlexRay, Ethernet. Most current premium cars have more than 10 of those networks and around 100 to 130 ECUs that talk to each other. So much about: they don't know about software. BTW: The difference between IT and automotive aka embedded is that embedded should work even without DevO…

I own a basically German-engineered car (the car badge itself is Spanish), and one of its main advantages is that it is old enough (well, by today's standards, the car is from 2007) that is not sophisticated enough in order to include that much electronics and software. As such I'm perfectly confident to hop right in and drive 400-500 miles, heck, I've driven almost 3000 miles a couple of summers ago all the way to S…

You wouldn't feel confident driving 400 miles in a 2019 German car because of software? What do you envision going wrong?

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#89

Post by Kurtz79 »

tpush wrote: post #44
kayoone wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Salaries of 70-90k EUR for Senior devs in Berlin are absolutely achievable and combined with the quite low cost of living in Berlin you probably have more fun money than anywhere in Europe as a developer.

But not nearly as much as you'd have in the US, probably.

Salaries for devs in the US are insane compared to the rest of the world, I don't think they can be taken as a reference, especially as most people do not have an easy way to just choose to move there.

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#90

Post by odiroot »

hobofan wrote: post #76
odiroot wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything above high 60's is really a pipe dream in this current market.

If you are looking at SMBs that treat you as a "IT guy", sure. If you are looking at more "modern" tech companies in Berlin or well-funded startups it's definitely possible. The last 3 job offers I had were in the 90-100k range, for a "senior" position (~6 years of experience) in Berlin.

This is definitely an outlier and not the norm. Look at Glassdoor and LinkedIn.

Maybe Zalando offers more but few would want to work there.

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