Another post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20509263
Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack
81–90 of 130 posts
Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack
#82On the other hand, cats -- for example -- are highly prone to kidney failure in a way that humans are not.
Cats, being obligate carnivores and lacking a proper mechanism for extracting energy out of fatty acids (e.g. ketogenesis in humans), have actually very efficient kidneys to dispose of all the nitrogen coming from their protein-exclusive metabolism. Domestic cats are at risk, but that is more a result of domestication and improper feeding (carbohydrate) than evolution or genetics. Unless I am missing something, of co…
I always thought it made sense that the improved efficiency comes at a cost. Our (human) kidneys are not as efficient, and we require a lot more water intake. Then again, we don't have as many kidney problems. This kind of argument certainly _feels_ right ("no free lunch"), but that does not necessarily make it so.
I feel that repeated inbreeding can (but does not have to) cause issues like sensitive kidneys in cats, but it probably also has to do with domestic cats growing relatively old. Things like faulty kidneys (or thyroid issues, or diabetes) bound to show up eventually if cancer does not get them before age 10.
Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack
#83If this turns out to be true, I wonder if this is something CRISPR could fix...
I'm not sure that I wish CMAH gene back: > Interestingly, the evolutionary loss of the CMAH gene appears to have produced other significant changes in human physiology, including reduced human fertility and enhanced ability to run long distances. Reduced fertility doesn't seem for me important, we have a contraception for that. But enhanced ability to run long distances seems very convenient. I can ride a bicycle or…
Lots of animals can walk long distances just fine. If you don't run long distances, I'm guessing you wouldn't notice any difference.
Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
So the benefit of this gene is... we die of heart attacks unless we go jogging regularly? Where do I sign up to get it back?
The other benefit (of not having this gene) is post-birth brain development.
That's one of our many genetic differences but the article and paper don't include the word "brain." Do you have a source showing that it's related to this particular gene?
Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, even if the crash is not an environmental cycle, a crash will generally occur because the glut of resources allows a population explosion which eventually consumes the available resource.
This is one of the hardest systems effects to explain to people every time there is a deer cull; the population doesn't stabilize, it grows until the food runs out and then crashes with vast numbers of deer starving to death. That a fair number of people still believe that it's more "natural", and thus better, for the bulk of the herd to starve to death rather than a percentage of the herd being hunted is one of the…
> one of the more curious animal rights positions.
It makes sense from the point of view of "stop messing with it for fuck's sake".
Probably doesn't make the situation better one way or the other of course, deer population explosions are largely caused by humans having removed most of the top predators, and being significant stressors for the rest (https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/07/humans-p...). The systems could probably recover if left alone, but that would require isolation (and mayhaps reintroductions) so predators can recover and retake their role, which is unlikely to happen outside of essentially exclusion zones like Pripyat / Chernobyl. Unless they're really unpopular / hard to access, most natural parks might have too much human presence for apex land predators to really be comfortable.
Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack
#86Interesting, I was always under the impression that chipmunks were susceptible to heart attacks. I can't remember where I read it and I can't find a current source but you are apparently not supposed to harass chipmunks because they can experience stress induced heart attacks when threatened/chased. I've also seen potential evidence for this when my cat chased one around a parking lot only for it to collapse after sp…
Rabbits, too. The whole premise behind this headline seems bogus.
The headline seems bogus but the article says that "naturally occurring coronary heart attacks due to atherosclerosis are virtually non-existent in other mammals." Atherosclerosis is the cause of only "one-third of deaths worldwide due to cardiovascular disease" so other causes could still apply to other mammals. For example, "chimp heart attacks were due to an as-yet unexplained scarring of the heart muscle."
Of course we can give rabbits atherosclerosis by giving them high cholesterol from a diet they don't eat in the wild. But in humans, "in roughly 15 percent of first-time cardiovascular disease events (CVD) due to atherosclerosis, none of these [risk] factors apply," where risk factors include "blood cholesterol, physical inactivity, age, hypertension, obesity and smoking."
So the study explores a possible reason for that.
Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack
#87Interesting, I was always under the impression that chipmunks were susceptible to heart attacks. I can't remember where I read it and I can't find a current source but you are apparently not supposed to harass chipmunks because they can experience stress induced heart attacks when threatened/chased. I've also seen potential evidence for this when my cat chased one around a parking lot only for it to collapse after sp…
[deleted]
Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack
#88Interesting, I was always under the impression that chipmunks were susceptible to heart attacks. I can't remember where I read it and I can't find a current source but you are apparently not supposed to harass chipmunks because they can experience stress induced heart attacks when threatened/chased. I've also seen potential evidence for this when my cat chased one around a parking lot only for it to collapse after sp…
Rabbits, too. The whole premise behind this headline seems bogus.
Ya, rabbits can die of heart attack if you startle them
Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cats, being obligate carnivores and lacking a proper mechanism for extracting energy out of fatty acids (e.g. ketogenesis in humans), have actually very efficient kidneys to dispose of all the nitrogen coming from their protein-exclusive metabolism. Domestic cats are at risk, but that is more a result of domestication and improper feeding (carbohydrate) than evolution or genetics. Unless I am missing something, of co…
Whenever I see comments blaming carbohydrate intake for large swaths of problems I find it challenging because I agree and then feel that I am seen as a heretic or extremely gullible. Do you ever feel that way?
I doubt anyone would think you a heretic for believing that about pure carnivores like cats.
Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I fail to see what this has to do with my comment. The hardening in atherosclerosis is caused directly and exclusively by atheroma.
Everything I've ever read says fatty deposits. The NHS website calls fatty deposits "atheroma". You can find multiple definitions of atherosclerosis/atheroma in other places describing them the same way. Wikipedia says: "While the early stages, based on gross appearance, have traditionally been termed fatty streaks by pathologists, they are not composed of fat cells but of accumulations of white blood cells, especial…
I want to call attention to the "oxidized" part of "oxidized LDL" as that's what makes LDL so dangerous. While pathologies of LDL and fat hog the limelight, it's important to keep a close eye on the third villain in the fight against AS and that is immune system pathologies mainly chronic inflammation.
Immune cells kill using peroxides, superoxides and other free radicals. Anyone with an over-active immune system that's triggered easily — allergies, chronic stress, sub-optimal sleep, genetics, exposure to pollutants, metal ions etc¹ — you're better off reducing immune system activity.
So yes, eat less fat but also focus on the immune system. A study found 29% of Japanese babies less than 1 year old had fatty streaks and they were not spending the first 11 months chugging slurpies and McDs.⁴
TL;DR: Dietary fat and adipose tissue/adipocytes involved in AS are two different things⁵, and try not to get oxidized to death by a glitchy immune system while busy chasing fats or the latest fad diet. Fats are just one piece of the puzzle.
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¹Mechanisms of LDL oxidation: http://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.cca.2010.08.038
²This means sleeping better, reducing stress, taking anti-oxidants, reduce insulin triggers i.e., reduce food with IF/ADF/CR³ and reduce carbs
³Intermittent Fasting/Alternate-Day Fasting/Calorie Restriction. This study finds ADF to be superior to CR; if you can stick to it, that is: Differential Effects of Alternate-Day Fasting Versus Daily Calorie Restriction on Insulin Resistance — http://sci-hub.tw/10.1002/oby.22564
⁴https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2812791/ - conjecture is the mothers were smokers, see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2644569/ for more info. Pollution should be focused more strongly when it comes to heart health, the evidence is clear.
⁵Any excess energy gets stored as fat, so reduce fat intake but increase protein or carb intake to compensate? No dice, the body will generate fat for you in the form of adipose tissue which will lead to AS in the presence of an unregulated immune system.