Seems like they could use the 2nd amendment there.
They seem to protest harder than countries with the 2nd amendment. Maybe the 2nd amendment is just another cultural sleeping pill.
Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists
81–90 of 241 posts
Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists
#82Seems to me this is Tiananmen part 2 unfolding before our eyes. And doesnt look like anyone will come to Hongkongs help.
Hoping India will step up and do something. Seems unlikely though.
Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists
#83you need to know the whole chain of events to understand what happened at Yuen Long last night. also you need to know the unique identity of Yuen Long in order to comprehend the situation. Yuen Long is a village of people from several big family names, they are all relatives in a way. have their own system and rules and really hate outsiders telling them what to do. in history, they fought with British, fought with Japanese, with government, HK government and Police then realize the best way is to allowing local'daddies'to run local affairs with minimum intervene,except serious crimes like rape, murders, drugs etc. Protesters dont get this, last week, they entered Yuen Long enforcing 'democracy', got told off and kicked out. Local warned, they dont want protesters in their area, if they come back ,YL locals will teach them a lesson about not to invade into others' community. but protesters took it as a challenge to their righteousness and claim they will 'liberal' Yuen Long. Locals got super irritated and with gang history of this area, they are not afraid of confronting with anyone,violently or not. so, they did it as they have always done when outsiders disrespect them. local police did not stand by protesters. but take what happened during last few weeks, like an officer got a finger bitten off but then was criticized 'excessive violence'etc. of course police have their own emotions, they are human beings after all, not robots. anyway, this is a tragic situation which is inevitable to happen , not after so many weeks of tolerance of violence and breaking law. the protesters once shouted at police asking them to disappear. and police disappeared. you call for lawlessness, then you have to live with lawlessness. you dont want to get punished by beating others, then you have to live with being beaten without anyone punished.
Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists
#84Does these protest still have broad support? It seems obvious that the HK administration is simply drawing out time and hoping the daily troubles the demonstrators are creating in time will kill their cause.
Broad support by whom? If you're including population not under the sphere of influence of the Chinese Communist Party, I'd say most likely yes. If not, of course there isn't broad support in the sense that Hong Kong is a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the Mainland. I hate to say it, but I'm expecting that an inevitable Tiananmen 2.0 is in the works; and I have seen nothing to convince me that pushed to t…
Broad support by the people of Hong Kong.
I think the parallel are the occupy protests in HK around 2014. In the beginning they had broad support but after about half a year that public support was gone and the police could clear remaining "occupiers".
As an outsider the issues of extradition seems like a symptom of something deeper: Hong Kong's role as a part of China. Perhaps frustration over economic conditions: Obscene rent to wage ratios. Not the same growth as in nearby mainland.
Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a hell of a lot harder (or at least more costly) to violently impose your will on people who can violently defend themselves.
A civilian population armed with guns to the teeth will still not be able to stand up even a little to a real well organized military with gear. Maybe it would be more costly, but the escalation would also provide the justification to strike down the population completely and simply murder all the protesters. Instead of reading about peaceful protesters being attacked you'd read about the military taking out insurgen…
To your first point, there are numerous historical examples to the contrary. To the second, HK has millions of protesters out, something like a quarter to a third of the population. You can't simply liquidate an entire generation of young people if you want to maintain a grip on anything more valuable than a smoking crater.
Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists
#86I am very curious, but worried, of the situation in HK. Concretely, it seems HKers can protest as much as they want, but when push comes to shove, the PRC will just end up crushing them and the parts of democracy they still have. I can't imagine how they may get any other outcome. Even if I wish they could just gain independence, it seems unlikely, and it's not like any foreign power would go to war to protect HK.
> Even if I wish they could just gain independence, it seems unlikely, and it's not like any foreign power would go to war to protect HK. I never understood this. Why would HK gain 'independence'? Why would a foreign power 'protect' HK? (protect from what?) HK has been used to build a narrative that is rather strange... Frankly people in HK calling for independence are a bit like, say, the Texas Nationalist Movement…
> Why would HK gain 'independence?
because if they don't they will be slowly assimilated into a non-democratic PRC. I am not calling for independence, I'm saying it would be nice if they had it rather than add 7m people to a regime.
> Why would a foreign power 'protect' HK?
they wouldn't, that's the point.
If HK were to declare independence, in other ages there might have been foreign powers propping them up _for their own interests_. I am not advocating this, I'm just pointing out this seems unlikely in the current world.
As for the Seattle independence: well, HK was independent for a while, and they hare already a SAR, the simile seems incorrect, but sure, it's not trivial to secede.
Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists
#87I am very curious, but worried, of the situation in HK. Concretely, it seems HKers can protest as much as they want, but when push comes to shove, the PRC will just end up crushing them and the parts of democracy they still have. I can't imagine how they may get any other outcome. Even if I wish they could just gain independence, it seems unlikely, and it's not like any foreign power would go to war to protect HK.
>I can't imagine how they may get any other outcome.
The only way would be is if the chinese government changed. Not all that likely, but on the other hand the Berlin wall was only up 30 years.
Tomorrow is always a better day to die.
Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists
#88There are a few good summary comments about the situation on /r/worldnews like: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/cg1sh2/chaos_and... What I personally find astounding that the police were pulled out right before the fight, the 999 operators hanged up for the callers and nearby police stations were closed during the event.
What's surprising about that? The HK government is necessarily compliant with the Mainland. Isn't that one of the root issues here? It'd be unexpected if they didn't stand down while PLA grunts, I mean "triad gangsters", put a beating on the protestors.
The Hong Kong police is made out of people. Unless they have an incredibly accurate filtering process for new hires, at least some police officers will support the protests, and even those who don't probably have some pride that'd make standing aside for criminal gangs hard to swallow.
Of course the leadership could've arranged for the police force to retreat without informing them about the purpose. In that case, the rank-and-file officers are probably quite unhappy about that decision.
Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, more guns is always the solution !!! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/2010_hom...
Voting and protesting are resulting in oppression and physical assault. Your argument, such as it is, is equivalent to saying people should not be allowed to defend themselves, because someone might get hurt. It rests on the hidden assumption that guns cause violence, which isn't supported by the evidence you offer; and flies in the face of the actual violence in HK.
Nobody was killed in the recent violence. Are you seriously suggesting that the commuters would have been safer, and less likely to get killed, if both sides had been armed with guns?
Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists
#90A co-worker of mine just returned from visiting mainland China. She said everyone she spoke to, did not know about the protests in Hong Kong. They had no idea that something was happening there.
Claiming not to know was a way to avoid talking about it. Anyone in China who wants to know, knows. Of course the people in Shenzhen, less than 30km away, are aware of what's happening in HK. They just have no desire whatsoever to get into a political discussion with foreigners. Don't underestimate the "them and us" mentality in China. It's very pervasive. Your co-worker was assuredly on the "them" side of the equati…
This. Not to mention in my experience most Chinese actually support the government.