Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change • Hacker News Board

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#81

Post by mike_ivanov » Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 3:35 PM UTC

piadodjanho wrote: post #41

sailingparrot wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it appropriate to call this fearmongering when the issues are real (for the 737)?

Yes. I think it is appropriate to call this fearmongering. The planes with the faulty software are grounded and won't be flying until they new software is proven to be safe. The re-certification process will likely be stricter than usually is. Thus, any fear about flying in those planes are unjustified.

This is NOT a software issue. It's a much deeper Boeing management issue which manifested (in this particular case) as a software issue. When the software issue is fixed, there is no guarantee that the underlying problem won't resurface in some other form.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#82

Post by hnarn » Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 3:37 PM UTC

notahacker wrote: post #57

hodder wrote: post #15

This is disgusting misdirection and frankly feels fraudulent to me. The definition of fraud is as follows: Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain. What Boeing is doing meets that definition of fraud if you ask me.

It's not fraud to drop a toxic brand name. It's been designated the 737-8200 internally and in regulator documents for years.

Surely the context within which alleged fraud happens is exactly what makes it so?

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#83

Post by 52-6F-62 » Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 3:37 PM UTC

magduf wrote: post #43

CodeSheikh wrote: post #14

Boeing is not going to disappoint you when it comes to shady stuff. I think now I am going to avoid any 737 models from now on-wards.

Unfortunately, it's pretty hard to avoid the 737 for a lot of routes because it's so ubiquitous. Also, most of them were engineered and built before the current management, and have proven themselves with a good safety record so far, so they really should be OK. It's the new MAX model you really want to avoid, and it's probably a good idea to avoid the 787 as well.

Why the 787? It's been my favourite ride so far—comfort-wise.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#84

Post by ken » Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 3:40 PM UTC

dehrmann wrote: post #77

jdright wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. And I'm starting to be afraid of ANY Boeing. This company is dead.

Really? I was in a 777 yesterday and felt like I was flying in a well-tested, mostly modern plane built with well-understood technologies. That, and I realized 737s (not Max, obviously) have loud interiors.

> felt like I was flying in a well-tested, mostly modern plane built with well-understood technologies

Given how much of its functionality is embedded in electronics and software, how can you know? Would a passenger be able to recognize if it suffered from the same flaws as the 737 MAX?

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#85

Post by toyg » Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 3:40 PM UTC

argd678 wrote: post #75

AznHisoka wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. If this happens, and my company is forcing me to business travel, I'm refusing to travel unless I'm put on an Airbus.

What company makes it hard to pick your flight that you’d need to resort to leverage?

Some (large) companies have automated processes where you’re forced to book travel arrangements through intranet portals with a limited choice of suppliers.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#86

Post by onemoresoop » Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 3:41 PM UTC

matz1 wrote: post #55

magduf wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an excess of caution, and it isn't one issue. This whole debacle has shown that safety is not a priority at Boeing at all, with misstep after misstep; we've only scratched the surface of the cancer running deep within this company. Remember, when the first plane crashed, they tried to blame the pilots. Then the second plane crashed, and they continued to insist it was safe. All the other nations' air safety…

I personally would not worry if my next flight is Boeing 737 max, the probability it will crash still very low, even if it do crash, I will be dead anyway it won't matter. Doesn't mean I trust Boeing, I trust market force, I trust that other people will keep the uproar to keep airline in check.

I personally would not worry if my next flight is Boeing 737 max either but I would worry if any members of my family were on it.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#87

Post by imglorp » Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 3:42 PM UTC

hodder wrote: post #15

This is disgusting misdirection and frankly feels fraudulent to me. The definition of fraud is as follows: Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain. What Boeing is doing meets that definition of fraud if you ask me.

The mattress and consumer electronics industries do the same thing with model names, specifically so consumers can't comparison shop. Very shady.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#88

Post by AznHisoka » Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 3:47 PM UTC

freeopinion wrote: post #67

AznHisoka wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. If this happens, and my company is forcing me to business travel, I'm refusing to travel unless I'm put on an Airbus.

What fascinating language. "I'm using all my leverage to refuse" doesn't me "I refuse". I wonder how many Boeing engineers used all their leverage to refuse to compromise safety.

Edited. I wanted to emphasize the refuse, but I guess my language portrayed weakness.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#89

Post by NullPrefix » Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 3:48 PM UTC

ken wrote: post #84

dehrmann wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I was in a 777 yesterday and felt like I was flying in a well-tested, mostly modern plane built with well-understood technologies. That, and I realized 737s (not Max, obviously) have loud interiors.

> felt like I was flying in a well-tested, mostly modern plane built with well-understood technologies Given how much of its functionality is embedded in electronics and software, how can you know? Would a passenger be able to recognize if it suffered from the same flaws as the 737 MAX?

> Given how much of its functionality is embedded in electronics and software, how can you know?

Marketing, mostly.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#90

Post by ageofwant » Mon, Jul 15, 2019, 3:49 PM UTC

romanovcode wrote: post #29

LordFast wrote: post #6

Out of all the possible solutions, let's go ahead and choose the one that further destroys people's trust in our abilities to make sound decisions! /s Ridiculous.

Not ridicilous at all. Same tactics have worked for many multi-national companies after huge screwups and it worked. Just a few examples: https://www.businessinsider.com/7-companies-that-changed-nam...

Not surprising that you are being down-voted for stating the obvious.

Boeing exhibits all the schizophrenic behaviour we come to expect from business as it stands in this age. And they will continue to do so as long as it maximises shareholder value, which is the only reason they exist.

Sure, corp-cucks will blab on about social license and the like, but look at how the market judged them: A $100 drop from $450 to $350, and that's it. Two planes drop from the sky, killing ~350 people, subsequent investigations reveals Boeing fired their skilled engineers and to this day have not fixed their software. The share price barely moves. Why the fuck should they change anything ?