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France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

bbc.com

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Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#81

Post by bluecalm »

Renaud wrote: post #64
bluecalm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not that simple. They don't use any of the country infrastructure or workers. If I make a video game and sell it to a person in France does it mean I do business in France? It seems to me it should be treated the same as French person coming to my country, buying my game and going back home. We've just skipped on unnecessary traveling. Those things are subject to debate and power struggle but it's clear t…

>France does it mean I do business in France? It seems to me it should be treated the same as French person coming to my country, buying my game and going back home. In that case you, the vendor, would need to pay taxes where you sold the game. The problem with these large companies is that they basically pay little to no taxes _anywhere_, an optimisation that only large companies can really afford.

They pay taxes where they are located. I am opponent of corporate income tax as I think it's the worse possible way to get about taxation. France is already collecting VAT on what Google sells there. They could increase that if they want. Why should it matter to them if Google turns profits or not? The concept of "profit from sells to France" isn't really well defined either, their profit depends on cost of operating and those depends on laws and regulations of the place they actually use to make their product.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#82

Post by Allower »

jorge-d wrote: post #57
aey wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter how the law is written, if the result is that the exceptions only apply to French companies and not to the US, it’s bullshit :). They could pick arbitrary ways to bisect the set until they get the desired result.

Who said it was only targeting US companies? 26 companies fall under the required threshold. Not all of them are US based and there's even a French one (criteo). Here is the full list [1]: • Sales of goods: Alibaba, Amazon, Apple, Ebay, Google, Groupon, Rakuten, Schibsted, Wish, Zalando. • Services: Amadeus, Axel Springer, Booking, Expedia, Match.com, Randstad, Recruit, Sabre, Travelport Worldwide, Tripadvisor, Uber.…

Wait Sabre is a real company?

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#83

Post by bluecalm »

the-dude wrote: post #72
bluecalm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not that simple. They don't use any of the country infrastructure or workers. If I make a video game and sell it to a person in France does it mean I do business in France? It seems to me it should be treated the same as French person coming to my country, buying my game and going back home. We've just skipped on unnecessary traveling. Those things are subject to debate and power struggle but it's clear t…

Try bringing much more expensive items across a border and you will see what happens ( you will be taxed at the border ).

Yeah, I will pay VAT and maybe tariffs. Both are perfectly fine taxes. Google is already paying VAT on sells to France. France could increase those on electronic advertising if they want to and Google will pay that.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#84

Post by bryanlarsen »

tzs wrote: post #63
Vinnl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What public resources did Amazon, a US company, use from France? Digital infrastructure, anti-poverty programs that mean potential customers still have something to spend, financial infrastructure, legislation, ...

Shouldn't that be covered by the 20% VAT that Amazon pays on goods and services sold to entities in France?

Is VAT paid when Google shows an American ad to a French person?

The tax is on "digital services". It's unclear if the tax is on physical services from digital companies.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#85

Post by magashna »

alt_f4 wrote: post #18
99052882514569 wrote: post #3

Taxing digital companies based on digital presence certainly makes sense to me, as a layperson. A company that's selling ads to a French company that wants to show those ads to French users is doing business in France, end of story. Taxing only very large corporations - that's a little more questionable, but plenty of countries (including the US) treat small businesses preferentially, so it's not like it's unpreceden…

> company that's selling ads to a French company that wants to show those ads to French users is doing business in France, end of story. yeah, so taxes make sense to pay for the roads, bridges and healthcare that these ads are using.

Completely ignoring the cables that carry their data.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#86

Post by the-dude »

99052882514569 wrote: post #71
the-dude wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to refute your point, but they surely already charge VAT. However, this is commonly described as a tax for the buyer, not the seller. On the other hand, most revenue is probably B2B and business reclaim their VAT.

Customers buying from local businesses that compete with them also pay VAT, so the consumer side of it is fair. But local businesses themselves pay much more in corporate taxes, which is not. You are free to argue that the playing field can be likewise leveled by lowering corporate taxes to Ireland's levels. That's a debate for the French to have, as citizens of a sovereign country. It is not a decision to be forced…

I was not argueing anything.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#87

Post by icebraining »

glerk wrote: post #39
buboard wrote: post #17

I just hope the US does not "retaliate" on this. EU entrepreneurs are too dependent on US businesses.

I really wish US companies would take a more forceful approach with these rogue governments. “You get off our back or we pull out of your countries”

Looking at the list, and as a citizen of an European country: yes, please, do pull out.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#88

Post by SiempreViernes »

buboard wrote: post #32
bryanlarsen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What public resources did Amazon, a US company, use from France?" off the top of my head, I'm sure there are lots more: - a large set of well-off consumers who got there because of free public education, parental supports, et cetera - a safe society so drop shipping is possible - roads & infrastructure for shipping - a justice system that protects Amazon from cheating buyers and sellers - a stable, accepted currency…

All of those can be applied to any company however. By this logic, they should add a +3% tax on every foreign business. None of this is true. It is a protectionist / anti-tax evasion measure primarily. It can be justified considering the threat that amazon poses in local markets

I don't know why you just ignore to comment on the justification given: that big tech companies engage in blatant tax evasion.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#89

Post by levosmetalo »

glerk wrote: post #39
buboard wrote: post #17

I just hope the US does not "retaliate" on this. EU entrepreneurs are too dependent on US businesses.

I really wish US companies would take a more forceful approach with these rogue governments. “You get off our back or we pull out of your countries”

I would be happy if those spy organisations like Google and Facebook would leave my country.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#90

Post by bluecalm »

mars4rp wrote: post #70
bluecalm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not that simple. They don't use any of the country infrastructure or workers. If I make a video game and sell it to a person in France does it mean I do business in France? It seems to me it should be treated the same as French person coming to my country, buying my game and going back home. We've just skipped on unnecessary traveling. Those things are subject to debate and power struggle but it's clear t…

it is more like, you are putting your product in their shops and not paying any tax on it!

That doesn't make any sense. I am actually delivering it to customers myself, run the accounting, run the store. I don't use their real estate, their roads, electricity, anything. How is it anything like putting my product in their stores?
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