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Craig Wright faces tough questions over forged documents in court

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Re: Craig Wright faces tough questions over forged documents in court

#81

Post by TeMPOraL »

skybrian wrote: post #76
TeMPOraL wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really isn't, per what 'pdpi wrote. What we should do is being maximally trusting (to reap the efficiency benefits), and punish hard anyone trying to take advantage of it, way out of proportion compared to the magnitude of the violation, in order to discourage people from abusing the trust of others. The goal really is to let everyone be safe in trusting others to the point of naivete, because trust is that huge o…

There are situations when living in a trusting society can be helpful, but on the other hand, predictable consequences are probably a better idea when raising children, and also for encouraging people to trust that the system itself is fair. Rare, severe, apparently random punishment tends not to be associated with justice.

> Rare, severe, apparently random punishment tends not to be associated with justice.

In the dream/goal I presented I was hoping for swift, indiscriminate and - yes - severe justice. The lack of all three wrt. crimes against public or even individual trust is a problem for contemporary societies.

Re: Craig Wright faces tough questions over forged documents in court

#82

Post by Waterluvian »

skybrian wrote: post #70
Waterluvian wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a great example from today of the efficiency of trust. I went to a three storey old factory turned into an antiques store. 150 000 square feet. Three floors of booths of all kinds of stuff. Coins, cards, collectibles, toys, furniture, everything. The whole place had maybe five visible employees. It was all consignment. You'd pick up $300 worth of nicknacks from the top floor and walk it down to the first floor…

Very true, trust matters, but it might help a bit that many antiques aren't useful in themselves and aren't that easy to sell. If they were selling razors or baby formula, maybe things would be different? Do you think they have cameras?

I don't want to get into the implementation details of this store as that's not the point of my anecdote. Either trust me that this place was an example of trust, or don't. ;)

Re: Craig Wright faces tough questions over forged documents in court

#83

Post by TeMPOraL »

luckylion wrote: post #67
TeMPOraL wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really isn't, per what 'pdpi wrote. What we should do is being maximally trusting (to reap the efficiency benefits), and punish hard anyone trying to take advantage of it, way out of proportion compared to the magnitude of the violation, in order to discourage people from abusing the trust of others. The goal really is to let everyone be safe in trusting others to the point of naivete, because trust is that huge o…

> What we should do is being maximally trusting (to reap the efficiency benefits), and punish hard anyone trying to take advantage of it, way out of proportion compared to the magnitude of the violation, in order to discourage people from abusing the trust of others. Are we doing that, though? It feels like we're generally very trusting and, organized in society, very forgiving. Hell, in lots of business cases, cheat…

We're not doing that, and that's why you see trust being continuously eroded. I'm of the belief that trust is the very fundamental building block of a society, and so crimes against public trust should be punished severely. Manslaughter-level severely, not with a slap on the wrist via a symbolic fine.

Re: Craig Wright faces tough questions over forged documents in court

#84

Post by adventured »

pavlov wrote: post #53
vintermann wrote: post #46

Pretending to be vastly richer than you really are happens to be the first step in a large number of confidence games. In case anyone wonders why someone would want to pretend they're Satoshi.

This is also the fundamental reason why Donald Trump is using the Justice Department to prevent any disclosure of his tax returns.

No it's not. The most likely reason for that is Trump probably gave money to Planned Parenthood or a similar organization that would harm the pitch to his base.

We have his legally required financial disclosure forms that show a range on his income. Some of the best wealth trackers on earth - those at both Forbes and Bloomberg - have also put together sound estimates on his wealth (closer to $3 billion, not $10 billion).

Factually Trump presides over a sizable, serious business that is generating a large amount of cash.

Prominent assets: $765m Vornado partnership, $525m golf course & resorts, $445m 725 Fifth Ave, $480m 40 Wall St, $420 Niketown building, $330m other properties, $295m liquid, $140m 502 Park Ave, $95m DC hotel

"President Donald Trump’s latest financial disclosure report shows he had at least $434 million in revenue last year, but saw a drop in money coming from his Florida luxury resort Mar-a-Lago. The report, released Thursday, is required to be filed annually with the Government Ethics Office. It covers the president’s finances for 2018, his second year in office."

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/16/read-president-donald-trumps...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-12/trump-s-n...

Re: Craig Wright faces tough questions over forged documents in court

#85

Post by geekpowa »

danaos wrote: post #50
jnbiche wrote: post #4

The amazing things is that this guy -- an obvious fraud and conman -- has been invited to numerous high-level Bitcoin/Blockchain conferences as a speaker. It always stuns me how relatively few people are able to spot frauds (although it explains a lot about our current political situation). I'm guessing 40-50% of the population is susceptible to this kind of trickery.

His home was actually raided by Australian police right after news[1] broke that he may be Satoshi Nakamoto. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/09/bitcoin-f...

You trying to link his claim to being raided?

He was raided because he is a tax cheat who has been under investigation for years for multiple unrelated tax compliance events.

* edit. Typo/grammar.

Re: Craig Wright faces tough questions over forged documents in court

#86

Post by jlokier »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #81
skybrian wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are situations when living in a trusting society can be helpful, but on the other hand, predictable consequences are probably a better idea when raising children, and also for encouraging people to trust that the system itself is fair. Rare, severe, apparently random punishment tends not to be associated with justice.

> Rare, severe, apparently random punishment tends not to be associated with justice. In the dream/goal I presented I was hoping for swift, indiscriminate and - yes - severe justice. The lack of all three wrt. crimes against public or even individual trust is a problem for contemporary societies.

In your presentation, the severe justice was to discourage breaches of trust.

But that doesn't work if the justice is "apparently random".

If that is how it's perceived, then trust violators will have no incentive to avoid violation. They, and everyone else, will believe that it doesn't matter whether they violate trust or not, since justice is a lottery ticket given to everyone, where the prize is punishment, and it doesn't matter what you do.

Re: Craig Wright faces tough questions over forged documents in court

#87

Post by dunkelheit »

samcday wrote: post #2

The whole story seems so bizarre. As far as I understand it, some kind of fraudster got caught up in a bunch of his own lies, of which being the inventor of Bitcoin happened to be one. We're only reading about it because "Bitcoin" happens to be a frothy buzzword that gets the clicks. Otherwise this would just be some local news case about a wacky person saying the darndest things. It's funny how we decide what's news…

Seems newsworthy enough to me. First, the sum in question is north of $10B and even if nobody involved probably has access to it, it is still entertaining to watch. And though the guy is most likely a conman, nobody has put the final nail in the coffin yet so the scam lives on, fueled by large sums of money from his "business partner". It is interesting to watch how long will they be able to carry it on.

Re: Craig Wright faces tough questions over forged documents in court

#89

Post by tim333 »

jnbiche wrote: post #4

The amazing things is that this guy -- an obvious fraud and conman -- has been invited to numerous high-level Bitcoin/Blockchain conferences as a speaker. It always stuns me how relatively few people are able to spot frauds (although it explains a lot about our current political situation). I'm guessing 40-50% of the population is susceptible to this kind of trickery.

I listened to him at a blockchain conference and there is a certain freak show curiosity to it as there is to much in the blockchain space.

Re: Craig Wright faces tough questions over forged documents in court

#90

Post by dunkelheit »

Waterluvian wrote: post #14
jnbiche wrote: post #4

The amazing things is that this guy -- an obvious fraud and conman -- has been invited to numerous high-level Bitcoin/Blockchain conferences as a speaker. It always stuns me how relatively few people are able to spot frauds (although it explains a lot about our current political situation). I'm guessing 40-50% of the population is susceptible to this kind of trickery.

This is a feature, not a bug. Healthy communities are comprised of people who are trusting and permissive by default. The cost is that on occasion these communities will be exploited. Personally I think it's a very low price to pay for all its benefits.

One of the commandments of this particular community is Doing Your Own Research. Of course saying that you did your research is much easier than actually doing it so here goes.
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