Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

hongkongfp.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 113 posts

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#81

Post by [deleted] »

pishpash wrote: post #72
filoleg wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If they completely severed ties with China there is no value proposition anymore Becoming independent from China != completely severing ties with China. Also, I think these days a better served purpose of HK is as the access point to the whole Asian/SEA region, rather than the access point to China alone. Also, HK seems to be (from an outsider perspective) one of the most (if not the most) "westernized" cities in th…

What is it about post-colonial westerners that makes them not able to grok that the world, but especially Asia, no longer exists to serve westerners? Should there be a most "easternized" city in the heart of Europe that should have a prolific Mandarin speaker base?

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#82

Post by bllguo »

filoleg wrote: post #61
bllguo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HK used to flourish because it was the access point between China and the West. If they completely severed ties with China there is no value proposition anymore... what "higher highs" are you anticipating, exactly?

>If they completely severed ties with China there is no value proposition anymore Becoming independent from China != completely severing ties with China. Also, I think these days a better served purpose of HK is as the access point to the whole Asian/SEA region, rather than the access point to China alone. Also, HK seems to be (from an outsider perspective) one of the most (if not the most) "westernized" cities in th…

Hm. I guess I just don't see China allowing that kind of relationship with an independent HK. HK is also so incredibly close to China geographically, economically, and even culturally that it's hard to wrap my mind around the concept of HK independence.

HK as an Asia/SEA hub is a reasonable point, but Singapore already serves that role and is much less reliant on China.

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#83

Post by bitcurious »

vasili111 wrote: post #71
everybodyknows wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tatar minority in Crimea, on the other hand, did not like the idea of being Russian subjects much at all. https://newrepublic.com/article/116814/crimean-tatars-primer...

I do not understand why that message was down voted. Tatars are really the oldest owner of Crimea and they do not support Russia. They remember many bad from Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tat... And now too nobody asked them if they want to be part of Russia or not. Crimea is occupated and this is reality. All other talks about how much Crimea is more Russian sounds like a Russian p…

The Greeks were around a for a millenia prior to the tatars, the majority were resettled to modern day Ukraine under the Russian Empire.

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#84

Post by khc »

dan-robertson wrote: post #79
pishpash wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they didn't. People left in droves to Canada then.

I don’t see how this comment (or rather the second sentence of it) and the one above conflict: Many people didn’t believe it and went to Canada. Many people did believe and didn’t go to Canada. These don’t feel mutually exclusive to me.

Many people didn't believe and weren't in positions to leave

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#85

Post by inlined »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #69
everybodyknows wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tatar minority in Crimea, on the other hand, did not like the idea of being Russian subjects much at all. https://newrepublic.com/article/116814/crimean-tatars-primer...

So a minority should dictate international relations? A minority that aren't even indigenous and whose only history of statehood was being a vassal of the Ottomans that captured and sold Slavs as slaves... Why should they dictate what happens between Ukraine or Russia?

The US has a lot of people whose history of statehood traces back to slavery. They still get a right to vote on their future.

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#86

Post by dang »

pishpash wrote: post #72
filoleg wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If they completely severed ties with China there is no value proposition anymore Becoming independent from China != completely severing ties with China. Also, I think these days a better served purpose of HK is as the access point to the whole Asian/SEA region, rather than the access point to China alone. Also, HK seems to be (from an outsider perspective) one of the most (if not the most) "westernized" cities in th…

What is it about post-colonial westerners that makes them not able to grok that the world, but especially Asia, no longer exists to serve westerners? Should there be a most "easternized" city in the heart of Europe that should have a prolific Mandarin speaker base?

You've been repeatedly crossing into flamewar on these topics. We've asked you many times before not to do that, and even told you we'd ban you if you did it again. Would you please stop doing this on HN? It's abusive, no matter how wrong and ignorant others' comments are or you feel they are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#87

Post by filoleg »

vasili111 wrote: post #71
everybodyknows wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tatar minority in Crimea, on the other hand, did not like the idea of being Russian subjects much at all. https://newrepublic.com/article/116814/crimean-tatars-primer...

I do not understand why that message was down voted. Tatars are really the oldest owner of Crimea and they do not support Russia. They remember many bad from Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tat... And now too nobody asked them if they want to be part of Russia or not. Crimea is occupated and this is reality. All other talks about how much Crimea is more Russian sounds like a Russian p…

Semi-related (not trying to detract from your point): interestingly enough, there is a whole Tatar state within Russia that many people might not be aware of (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatarstan).

>Crimea is occupated and this is reality. All other talks about how much Crimea is more Russian sounds like a Russian propaganda.

While I am very opposed to the capture of Crimea by RF, I feel you are being disingenuous when you say that. According to the latest census, russians make up 67.9% of Crimean population, while tatars make up just 12.6% [1]. Those numbers seem to support the point that Crimea is indeed majority russian, with tatars being outnumbered by almost a factor of 6.

1.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea#Ethnici...

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#88

Post by hospes »

vasili111 wrote: post #71
everybodyknows wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tatar minority in Crimea, on the other hand, did not like the idea of being Russian subjects much at all. https://newrepublic.com/article/116814/crimean-tatars-primer...

I do not understand why that message was down voted. Tatars are really the oldest owner of Crimea and they do not support Russia. They remember many bad from Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tat... And now too nobody asked them if they want to be part of Russia or not. Crimea is occupated and this is reality. All other talks about how much Crimea is more Russian sounds like a Russian p…

>> Tatars are really the oldest owner of Crimea and they do not support Russia...

Tatars are not the oldest owner of Crimea. 2500 years ago Crimea was a Greek colony, then it was part of a Persian Empire, then Roman Empire, then Byzantine Empire [1] Mongols conquered Crimea only in 13th century.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea#Ancient_history

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#89

Post by rolltiide »

HippoBaro wrote: post #37
rolltiide wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is the sentiment of raising the old British HK flag? Is it like that would be a preferred status of HK? Is is like a reference to former puppets running HK, who now report to Beijing instead of Britain? Is it just trolling?

From what I understand, they largely romanticize the times when Hong Kong was a British colony. However, it seems clear that what the protesters are asking for is ideologically more in-line with a British/Western conception of a democratic society. And because Hong Kong will never be independent and the CCP never democratic, raising the British HK flag is the last thing they can hold on to. I see it as a testament to…

Interesting.

When I talk to HK citizens I don't really get the sense of desperation. I get the sense of complacency and imaging everything is going to be okay. Carrie Lam has certainly crossed an ideological line, I still think we are projecting our perspective of how Hong Kong citizens are supposed to feel.

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#90

Post by elliekelly »

inlined wrote: post #40

Any time protesters start throwing “unidentified liquids” my mind makes some gross assumptions. Maybe I’ve spent too long in SF.

My first thought as well. And the reason I’ll never go to the Hong Kong Sevens even though I hear it’s awesome.
Post reply on HN