“The books will stop working.” • Hacker News Board

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#81

Post by Causality1 » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 8:34 PM UTC

I forget which store it was, but back in the day when I bought e-books to read on my PDAs they came encrypted, with the credit card number I used to buy them being the decryption key, so I was completely independent of the store to read them and could share them with anyone I trusted with my card number. It seems like a quaint solution to modern sensibilities but thoroughly satisfying on a moral level.

These days I buy the digital version on Amazon but don't download it. I pirate the copy I'm actually going to read and archive.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#82

Post by nvusuvu » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 8:34 PM UTC

SkyBelow wrote: post #71

rhinoceraptor wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps if text books didn't cost $200 each, broke college kids would actually be able to afford them.

>$200 each Sadly, you are dating yourself with that comment.

Has the price changed recently?

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#83

Post by tolmasky » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 8:34 PM UTC

blakesterz wrote: post #15

Can you imagine someone trying to start public libraries if they didn't already exist now? I think it's safe to say it would never ever happen, at least in the US. Between lobbying and the general disdain for most things run by any type of government here, they'd never have a chance. Luckily we still have places that still purchase printed books (along with ebooks) and you can go borrow them any time and they never s…

If we merely had the same copyright we had when the country first formed, this entire "your books turn off thing" would possibly be completely acceptable: a subset of works would be onerous and somewhat annoying for 28 years, after which you could literally do whatever you want with them. Key here is that this means that within your lifetime this would quite possibly be the case. This also means that a very large variety of still-somewhat-recent works would be public domain, and thus creating tools to read them would be profitable. Right now, a "public domain" Kindle would be for what, works that are over a hundred years old or something? Few people will ever encounter public domain works they want to read so it's as if everything fits the rent model.

The crazy thing is that everything is more amenable to "sharing" today, it is merely legal structure that prevents it now. Arguably the true utility of a library is that it would be (or would have been) absurd to duplicate a physical book for every person that wants it, and then when no one was actively reading them they'd take up a crazy amount of space. This is still true today! This world should be strictly better than the past. But instead we have nostalgia for libraries, not due to any essential reason, but because we've created an artificial environment where it is more appealing to potentially wait for a copy of something to become available vs. instantly duplicating it.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#84

Post by logifail » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 8:35 PM UTC

My grandmother is in her late 90s, has dementia, and is in a care home. My mother sent me this update last week:

> Went to see Granny yesterday, was quite cheerful, read though the poems in "When we were very young"[0], her original copy[1], given to her in 1928, how about that. She knows them off by heart and joins in when you read them to her

Q: When we're in our late 90s, how many of us will be able to consume 90-year-old-content that way?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_We_Were_Very_Young [1] It was first published in 1924

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#85

Post by warp_factor » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 8:36 PM UTC

blakesterz wrote: post #15

Can you imagine someone trying to start public libraries if they didn't already exist now? I think it's safe to say it would never ever happen, at least in the US. Between lobbying and the general disdain for most things run by any type of government here, they'd never have a chance. Luckily we still have places that still purchase printed books (along with ebooks) and you can go borrow them any time and they never s…

For what it is worth I love my local libraries.

I'm able to hold any book online so as soon as I hear about a book I place a hold on it. They have most books even new ones and if not I can request it for free through all libraries in North California.

I stop by the library once a week and pick up all the holds of that week (typically 3-4). I love to have the physical medium around.

I typically renew my loans 2 or 3 times and as such I keep the books close to 3 months. It allows me to fully read the ones I find interesting and just go over quickly the ones I don't care about.

Once a month I bring back all the books I got.

And all of this is completely free. I love my local libraries and cannot believe it took me that long to find out about this wonderful service.

From now on I go out of my way to never buy a single book again and avoid all DRM and other nonsensical digital medias like that.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#86

Post by swebs » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 8:36 PM UTC

sambe wrote: post #49

ultrarunner wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, people all over my neighborhood have put considerable effort into building awesome tiny sharing libraries. Perhaps without the issue being "solved" we'd see even more and varied institutions formulate organically. So yes, I can imagine, but who knows whose imagination is closer to "alternative reality"?

Wouldn't the small sharing libraries also be at risk under a system with more power held by copyright owners?

No copies are being made, so no. Keep in mind we're talking about physical books, not filesharing.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#87

Post by AnssiH » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 8:36 PM UTC

hyperman1 wrote: post #4

I wonder how this can even be legal in Europe. If someone sold you something, its yours. AFAIK, There is enough consumer protection to stop most EULA bullshit. So it seems it only needs someone to sue and some proof microsoft used the word 'sold' when you bought it.

I doubt the law requires anything more than the full refund which MS is providing.

Similarly, if someone sells you a physical product that is faulty, the seller is not required to produce a replacement, they can just refund you instead.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#88

Post by satysin » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 8:37 PM UTC

docker_up wrote: post #13

I have a close friend who published an engineering text book. He worked a couple of years on it and it was well received in his particular field. The book was pirated within months and is freely available on PDF. It's unfair that his hard work is being used globally for free. So yes, having books shut off sucks but so does piracy.

So what you're saying is the mechanism they put in place to prevent your friends book from being pirated failed within months?

Yet all those who purchased it legally could one day be left with having their purchase shut off? They might be lucky and get refunds but they still lose access to the book.

To me that seems like an utter failure for everyone.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#89

Post by carom » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 8:37 PM UTC

josephorjoe wrote: post #37

blakesterz wrote: post #15

Can you imagine someone trying to start public libraries if they didn't already exist now? I think it's safe to say it would never ever happen, at least in the US. Between lobbying and the general disdain for most things run by any type of government here, they'd never have a chance. Luckily we still have places that still purchase printed books (along with ebooks) and you can go borrow them any time and they never s…

Project Gutenberg is really a modern day equivalent and is one of the better things created on the internet.

I prefer Library Genesis.

Re: “The books will stop working.”

#90

Post by docker_up » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 8:37 PM UTC

docker_up wrote: post #13

I have a close friend who published an engineering text book. He worked a couple of years on it and it was well received in his particular field. The book was pirated within months and is freely available on PDF. It's unfair that his hard work is being used globally for free. So yes, having books shut off sucks but so does piracy.

The lack of empathy in the responses is staggering to me. It's as if the idea that a content creator should be financially rewarded for his or her hard work is some sort of moral crime. Yes, DRM sucks, but what other way can content providers ensure that they get rewarded for the hard work and good content that they provide?