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Bernie Sanders to unveil plan to cancel all $1.6T of student loan debt

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Re: Bernie Sanders to unveil plan to cancel all $1.6T of student loan debt

#81

Post by its_the_future »

GhostVII wrote: post #59

This seems like it would only make the student loan situation worse over time. Tuition is inflated because student loans are easy to get, so students are not very price-sensitive and are willing to go to expensive schools over much cheaper options. Forgiving student loan debt helps current students, but just encourages future students to accept even more debt with the hope that it will be forgiven. We should be encou…

The plan is part of a more comprehensive "college for all" program that Sanders has already released in pieces and includes free tuition at all four-year public colleges and universities, as well as community colleges. The broader proposal also includes subsidies to reduce the cost of tuition and fees for low income students at private colleges that historically serve underrepresented communities.

"We will make a full and complete education a human right in America, to which all of our people are entitled," Sanders said on Monday. "This means making public colleges, universities and HBCUs tuition-free and debt-free by tripling the work study program, expanding Pell grants and other financial incentives."

Re: Bernie Sanders to unveil plan to cancel all $1.6T of student loan debt

#82

Post by its_the_future »

totaldude87 wrote: post #8

Just too many questions at this point. what about the ones who have already paid the entirety of its loan? How about a federal loan structure? with very minimal interest? Isn't this problem a derivative of problem (insert costly higher education) here. Shouldn't this also mean that education loan will become one of the easy way to get into college even if you dont want to? What about the future generation? Its good t…

The plan is part of a more comprehensive "college for all" program that Sanders has already released in pieces and includes free tuition at all four-year public colleges and universities, as well as community colleges. The broader proposal also includes subsidies to reduce the cost of tuition and fees for low income students at private colleges that historically serve underrepresented communities. "We will make a full and complete education a human right in America, to which all of our people are entitled," Sanders said on Monday. "This means making public colleges, universities and HBCUs tuition-free and debt-free by tripling the work study program, expanding Pell grants and other financial incentives."

Re: Bernie Sanders to unveil plan to cancel all $1.6T of student loan debt

#83

Post by onetimemanytime »

andonisus wrote: post #53
chrshawkes wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is so baffling is that much of that debt was accrued as basic living expenses with extremely low interest rates, where the poor have to rely on 20% interest cards, but no bailout?

Why does it have to be a competition of loss? The student loan issue is something that should be addressed in and of itself. The constant whatabout-ism when it comes to the less privileged/wealthy (and especially when it comes to being a white male versus a PoC) is exactly what I am complaining about. It feels as if the middle class is constantly being told that our problems don't matter because we have just enough t…

>>Why does it have to be a competition of loss? The student loan issue is something that should be addressed in and of itself.

Because the money comes out of everyone's pocket. How about free healthcare for more people, free child care so people can go to work etc etc? The govt can't just issue new dollars indefinitely, so there's a cost. I understand that colleges are very expensive and loans have made it even more expensive--just sign here and see you in 4 years. But since the money is coming out of the pooled money we have to think twice and consider everyone's problems.

Re: Bernie Sanders to unveil plan to cancel all $1.6T of student loan debt

#84

Post by jqgatsby »

rayiner wrote: post #75
jqgatsby wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it the case that you are coming at this from a point of view that is opposed to progressive liberalism in general? That would have been helpful to mention up front, because the article you cite is actually arguing from the view of Sanders' proposal being insufficiently progressive. It seems disingenuous to me to cite it without clarifying that your own reasons for opposing the proposal are completely different.

The article criticizes Sanders' proposal for allocating a large government benefit disproportionately to the middle class. I'm criticizing the proposal for the same reason. My point about taxes is the flip side of the same criticism. "Progressive liberals" view the upper middle class as a marginalized class that should receive government benefits, not a privileged class that should pay for them. That's why Sanders' p…

Your example of the guy who has $100K in student loans and is making a $100K salary in New York is a good example, but I think we very much disagree on how he should be treated. If he's living in NYC, his take-home is about $68k after taxes and he's laying out $3500/month in rent for a one bedroom and paying $1k/month for the loans. That leaves him $1100/month for utilities, medical, and, you know, food if he wants to eat. I know there are plenty of people who are worse off, but this guy is working a non-trivial job just to tread water. Why do you have so little sympathy for him?

Re: Bernie Sanders to unveil plan to cancel all $1.6T of student loan debt

#86

Post by anm89 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #33
anm89 wrote: post #13

I can't find this mentioned, is this only federal loans held by the government or would this involve forgiving privately held debts. The first seems reasonable. The second seems terrifying.

"Forgiving privately held debts" sounds an awful lot like "taking (stealing) from the lender". That probably would not pass a Supreme Court review. (No taking without just compensation.)

I would entirely agree but I'm not sure the average Bernie, Cortez, or Warren supporter would.

I have definitely heard people advocate for a total jubilee on student loan debt.

I do agree that the current Supreme Court probably wouldn't let it happen.

Re: Bernie Sanders to unveil plan to cancel all $1.6T of student loan debt

#87

Post by AnimalMuppet »

anm89 wrote: post #86
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Forgiving privately held debts" sounds an awful lot like "taking (stealing) from the lender". That probably would not pass a Supreme Court review. (No taking without just compensation.)

I would entirely agree but I'm not sure the average Bernie, Cortez, or Warren supporter would. I have definitely heard people advocate for a total jubilee on student loan debt. I do agree that the current Supreme Court probably wouldn't let it happen.

Well, in fairness, Bernie is not responsible for everything every one of his supporters say. (He is responsible for making it clear when what he means is different from what his supporters think.)

Re: Bernie Sanders to unveil plan to cancel all $1.6T of student loan debt

#88

Post by RickJWagner »

"It's a regressive giveaway that primarily benefits upper middle class people who attended elite four year colleges"

Seems about right. For those that don't get accepted to the expensive colleges, it's a lifetime of higher taxes to fund their upwardly mobile peer's lifestyle.

Re: Bernie Sanders to unveil plan to cancel all $1.6T of student loan debt

#89

Post by rayiner »

jqgatsby wrote: post #84
rayiner wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article criticizes Sanders' proposal for allocating a large government benefit disproportionately to the middle class. I'm criticizing the proposal for the same reason. My point about taxes is the flip side of the same criticism. "Progressive liberals" view the upper middle class as a marginalized class that should receive government benefits, not a privileged class that should pay for them. That's why Sanders' p…

Your example of the guy who has $100K in student loans and is making a $100K salary in New York is a good example, but I think we very much disagree on how he should be treated. If he's living in NYC, his take-home is about $68k after taxes and he's laying out $3500/month in rent for a one bedroom and paying $1k/month for the loans. That leaves him $1100/month for utilities, medical, and, you know, food if he wants t…

Because (1) he's objectively well off, having a one bedroom apartment to himself in New York itself being a sign of prosperity and privilege; and (2) because he's around the 90th percentile income level, and if we don't tax him heavily we cannot afford an expansive welfare state.

People in the top 25% but outside the top 1% earn half of all income, $5 trillion, 2.5x as much as the top 1%. You need high taxes on that group to support an expansive welfare state. In Germany, Mr. NYC would be taking home $57,000, and he'd pay 19% VAT on cocktails in Munich.

Re: Bernie Sanders to unveil plan to cancel all $1.6T of student loan debt

#90

Post by dang »

ru999gol wrote: post #18
solotronics wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today we have hyper globalized financial systems and if a country implements taxes like this the big players just move their money elsewhere. This only ends up hurting middle class folks who are playing by the books. I think it would make much more sense to have a very simple tax system (a few percent on every capital gain or income, wether corporate or personal) and get rid of every other complexity and loophole. If…

Its sort of amazing that anyone can still openly advocate that raising taxes on the rich "only ends up hurting middle class" or for "no minimum wage" slavery, without getting the shit kicked out of them. The really crazy thing is they think they are good people, not at all rotten and viscous as they truly are. The cliff between rich and poor is ever more increasing, and you think giving the rich more is going to stop…

Would you please stop posting ideological and political battle comments to HN? It's not what this site is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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