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Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

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Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#81

Post by ei8htyfi5e »

nabakin wrote: post #79
ei8htyfi5e wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, to be up front, some of these points I found on a thread early this morning and I copied it to a note pad for later, then went to sleep. When I woke up, the page had refreshed and I have no way of crediting the original author. But I think it's important to share, so I did. If you are the author, or know who wrote parts of this, please tell me and I will credit you/them.

Cant you google some of the text to find the original comment? Or are you saying the original comment was deleted?

Not sure. It's on a facebook group and I couldn't find it in search and I looked in the group I thought it was posted in, but I can't find it.

Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#82

Post by bamboozled »

codesushi42 wrote: post #67
ei8htyfi5e wrote: post #56

I put this in another thread but I've been shouting it far and wide today. I've lived in China and seen how this plays out. Facebook's new Libra Blockchain will be a centralized bank but way more dangerous. It will allow for a worldwide social credit system. If Facebook decides to remove you for wrong speak or wrong think, your money and many services will be inaccessible. Further, they have no mandate like the centr…

> It will allow for a worldwide social credit system. If Facebook decides to remove you for wrong speak or wrong think, your money and many services will be inaccessible. How is this different than what we have today with banks and credit card companies? The government can already freeze your funds. And now there are examples of people being censored online by being dropped by PayPal, which sets a scary precedent no…

On the other hand, is a social media platform and private company with a fairly bad track record of respecting human rights to privacy and democracy the best group to solve these issues?

Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#83

Post by dang »

ei8htyfi5e wrote: post #56

I put this in another thread but I've been shouting it far and wide today. I've lived in China and seen how this plays out. Facebook's new Libra Blockchain will be a centralized bank but way more dangerous. It will allow for a worldwide social credit system. If Facebook decides to remove you for wrong speak or wrong think, your money and many services will be inaccessible. Further, they have no mandate like the centr…

Please don't repeat comments in multiple threads. Repetition destroys curiosity and is therefore off topic here.

Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#84

Post by pathseeker »

codesushi42 wrote: post #67
ei8htyfi5e wrote: post #56

I put this in another thread but I've been shouting it far and wide today. I've lived in China and seen how this plays out. Facebook's new Libra Blockchain will be a centralized bank but way more dangerous. It will allow for a worldwide social credit system. If Facebook decides to remove you for wrong speak or wrong think, your money and many services will be inaccessible. Further, they have no mandate like the centr…

> It will allow for a worldwide social credit system. If Facebook decides to remove you for wrong speak or wrong think, your money and many services will be inaccessible. How is this different than what we have today with banks and credit card companies? The government can already freeze your funds. And now there are examples of people being censored online by being dropped by PayPal, which sets a scary precedent no…

>the Fed has shown no concern for those who save by keeping interest rates so dangerously low

There is no such thing as a dangerously low interest rate. The atmosphere won't suddenly catch on fire if you don't get a certain percent of risk free money. Additionally, "those who save" is not part of their mandate. They target unemployment and inflation.

>The Fed is also here to make money for huge banks and corporations by making credit so cheap.

Cheap credit isn't good banks anymore than it's good for individuals. Low interest means low mortgages, etc. If it's good for businesses, it's good for people for the same reason.

>In the long run this may not be the best for employment.

There hasn't been evidence otherwise so far. There has been plenty of evidence of money shortages causing lots of unemployment (see all busts of the early 1900s).

>Even if it is, it won't be for wages and wealth disparity.

High interest is absolutely terrible for wealth disparity. It's literally free money for people with money.

Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#85

Post by akozak »

itsnotlupus wrote: post #9
Despegar wrote: post #2

Haven't read any of the news about how this currency is supposed to work, but if it lets anyone bypass the SWIFT system then the US should probably ban it too. Being able to sanction anyone is a powerful tool to give up to Facebook of all companies.

I expect we'll find out that Libra's default set of trusted validators will be perfectly willing to accommodate local regulations. More than that though, AML/KYC and any other checks deemed necessary can occur at almost every point of contact with fiat currencies.

Don't need to wait, they said so.

https://libra.org/en-US/compliance-consumer-protection/#over...

Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#86

Post by ahartmetz »

neckeri wrote: post #43
orbifold wrote: post #11

There is basically no way that a self respecting first world country will allow this to happen. The national federal reserves in Europe are still responsible for international settlements, that gives a tremendous amount of power and oversight, they won’t allow a third party to take that away from them. Facebook may be able to buy off US regulators, but they won’t be able to convince the EU.

Thats assuming the EU isnt easy to buy off - looking at a couple of regulations in the pesticide industry its easy to see they're very accommodative. Lobbying is big business in Brussels.

You can buy them off, but successful lobbying probably takes years of relationship building to make it look like marriage, not prostitution, to those corruptees that think of themselves as ethical people. You can't just arrive and buy some legislation.

Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#87

Post by elcomet »

orbifold wrote: post #15
Barrin92 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't be so sure that Uncle Sam isn't going to crack down even harder than the EU. Financial control is a big part of US power abroad and I can't imagine that the US government is going to tolerate a private entity taking that control away, and that's probably for the better. This entire Facebook currency thing sounds like something out of Shadowrun.

I think it is likely that this is backed by a substantial set of US political interests. People that want to experiment with UBI might want to see a Facebook sanctioned UBI. This is basically any libertarians pipe dream. On the other hand I think you are right. I expect any US based opposition to move swiftly. Regulations should probably be the least of their concern given how the US has treated entire Nation States…

> This is basically any libertarians pipe dream.

Are you sure about this? I thought libertarians were against all institutions such as the state with power over people.

UBI is a socialist policy. It seems in total contradiction with libertarian principles to me. How is that possible?

Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#88

Post by stevesimmons »

ahartmetz wrote: post #86
neckeri wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats assuming the EU isnt easy to buy off - looking at a couple of regulations in the pesticide industry its easy to see they're very accommodative. Lobbying is big business in Brussels.

You can buy them off, but successful lobbying probably takes years of relationship building to make it look like marriage, not prostitution, to those corruptees that think of themselves as ethical people. You can't just arrive and buy some legislation.

In October last year, Facebook hired Nick Clegg, former UK Deputy Prime Minister and well-known Europhile, as head of Global Affairs and Communications.

So that's your years of relationship building, acquired in one go.

Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#89

Post by orbifold »

elcomet wrote: post #87
orbifold wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is likely that this is backed by a substantial set of US political interests. People that want to experiment with UBI might want to see a Facebook sanctioned UBI. This is basically any libertarians pipe dream. On the other hand I think you are right. I expect any US based opposition to move swiftly. Regulations should probably be the least of their concern given how the US has treated entire Nation States…

> This is basically any libertarians pipe dream. Are you sure about this? I thought libertarians were against all institutions such as the state with power over people. UBI is a socialist policy. It seems in total contradiction with libertarian principles to me. How is that possible?

Well I am not a libertarian myself but as far as I understood people pushing for UBI are also pushing for a drastically smaller administration which is currently administering social benefits. This would be achieved by basically eliminating most other form of benefits, similar to how they propose to hand out vouchers for services like education instead of operating schools.

Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#90

Post by tasssko »

This is all a game. Bitcoin and other coins are currently available for use by anyone. Their value is decided on network effects or supply/ demand. It's not regulated and can facilitate global transactions (I.e if you have patience and time). For some people it's working well. What we will probably discover is as long as Bitcoin is difficult to use and targets people with niche requirements the government will look the other away. As soon as someone wants to make this easier well things change. Libra was a very convincing sell to me. The challenge with bitcoin is the volatility potential. Libra might convince more people to think of Bitcoin more.
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