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We Could Have Had Electric Cars from the Beginning

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Re: We Could Have Had Electric Cars from the Beginning

#81

Post by barney54 »

pier25 wrote: post #62
standardUser wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out the same was true for internal combustion engines all along.

People usually think cars are the biggest sources of emissions but it's not even close. All transportation (car, planes, trains, etc) represent 14% of global emissions. Globally the biggest source of emissions is energy production which represents about 35% (25% of direct emissions and 10% of processes like refining fuel). https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emiss... So, I doubt emissions from ICE…

What do you mean by “emissions”? GHG emissions? Pollution emissions?

Re: We Could Have Had Electric Cars from the Beginning

#82

Post by closeparen »

llukas wrote: post #80
closeparen wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One hour per stop, maybe. It’s 75 minutes to fully charge the original version, so likely a bit more for the long range.

When people stop saying X minutes to fully charge? This is not how it works in reality. Last 5-10% is essentially trickle charge so it is better to skip it and charge more often but faster. Just compare average charging power between 20-80% part of the curve and 80%-100%. It is ~4-6x difference depending on supercharger type: https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/08/supercharger-v3-shockin...

Because parent referred to using almost the entire range (350 mi out of 370 is 95% assuming no margin for error).

Re: We Could Have Had Electric Cars from the Beginning

#83

Post by dsfyu404ed »

maxxxxx wrote: post #56
Animats wrote: post #55

* But no sudden technological breakthrough explains the automobile’s arrival in the 1890s either.* Er, steel? Steel was about as exotic as titanium is now until the 1860s when the Bessemer process went into volume production.

I think steam engines prototyped a lot of the needed technology like lubrication, manufacturing of precision shafts and heat resistance which then could be applied to the gas engine.

We didn't have "good" machine tooling for mass production of metal parts until the 1880/1890s. The technology existed but it was all exotic and high priced because we just weren't good at making metal stuff.

Re: We Could Have Had Electric Cars from the Beginning

#84

Post by dsfyu404ed »

graycat wrote: post #79
smileysteve wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we're also omitting the steam car. Where the maintenance and dirtiness were their major detractors, refined fuels and new burners solve these. Steam engines can and could have been refilled at any gas station, could run on any multi fuel including biodiesel. They theoretically require less maintenance, no oil changes, no cooling system. They'd also have had greater range and greater top speed (though less acceleratio…

IIRC basic thermodynamics shows that ordinary steam engines can't be very efficient. So, don't get good MPG or miles per bucket of coal, or whatever fuel. IIRC the main reason for diesel-electric locomotives for trains and large ships was that it was significantly more efficient than just steam, at least steam with just a boiler and pistons. Of course, really large ships generate steam and then run it through a steam…

For trains diesel electric lets you really simplify the power-train. Imagine powering all those wheels mechanically, yeah, not happening.

Re: We Could Have Had Electric Cars from the Beginning

#85

Post by llukas »

closeparen wrote: post #82
llukas wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people stop saying X minutes to fully charge? This is not how it works in reality. Last 5-10% is essentially trickle charge so it is better to skip it and charge more often but faster. Just compare average charging power between 20-80% part of the curve and 80%-100%. It is ~4-6x difference depending on supercharger type: https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/08/supercharger-v3-shockin...

Because parent referred to using almost the entire range (350 mi out of 370 is 95% assuming no margin for error).

He mentioned all his favorite spots had superchargers, not that those only spots with superchargers along his way.

Re: We Could Have Had Electric Cars from the Beginning

#86

Post by dsfyu404ed »

oblib wrote: post #47

Early models of Ford's Model T had adjustable carburetors to run on ethanol with gasoline as an option. Not electric, but renewable, sustainable, and I'd assume (maybe wrongly) mostly carbon neutral.

Everything is "carbon neutral" on a long enough time period. You can make ethanol carbon neutral on a one year time period if you want.

Re: We Could Have Had Electric Cars from the Beginning

#87

Post by pier25 »

barney54 wrote: post #81
pier25 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People usually think cars are the biggest sources of emissions but it's not even close. All transportation (car, planes, trains, etc) represent 14% of global emissions. Globally the biggest source of emissions is energy production which represents about 35% (25% of direct emissions and 10% of processes like refining fuel). https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emiss... So, I doubt emissions from ICE…

What do you mean by “emissions”? GHG emissions? Pollution emissions?

Sorry, I thought it was obvious I meant GHG emissions.

Re: We Could Have Had Electric Cars from the Beginning

#88

Post by mysterydip »

whenchamenia wrote: post #20
rb808 wrote: post #4

You can visit Thomas Edison's house with his lab near Newark NJ. There are two electric cars on display. Interestingly here it says in 1914 38% of all the cars on the road were electric; 22% gasoline, 40% steam powered. http://www.edisonmuckers.org/edisons-cars/

Of all the pre-war cars I have been in or around... only steam had the power to throw you back in the seat. It would be interesting to see a modern multifuel interpretation of one. Might be well suited to long runtimes and alternate fuels.

Not exactly what you asked for, but have you seen BMW's turbosteamer concept? https://newatlas.com/go/4936/

Re: We Could Have Had Electric Cars from the Beginning

#89

Post by dripton »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #9
Swizec wrote: post #5

We also could have had steam powered cars. Jay Leno once said that he got pulled over on the freeway for breaking the speed limit in his Stanley Steamer from 1906-ish. Darn thing has a top speed of 127mph. My 2018 motorcycle tops out at 110mph, to give you a comparison. Why don't we have steam cars? Because in the early 1900's steam cars they couldn't compete with the elegance of ICE vehicles. The engines were big an…

> Tesla, for example, still doesn't have an official Nurburgring lap time because it simply isn't able to drive at racing speeds for long enough without the battery overheating and reducing power output to avoid damage Now I'm really curious: with a limit on the Tesla's performance to keep the battery from overheating, what's the fastest time it could do? That they don't have an official lap time for this reason stri…

Here's an 8:50 lap (amateur driver) with a P85D. From 2015.

The 3 is better on the track than the S. Still heavy, of course.

Re: We Could Have Had Electric Cars from the Beginning

#90

Post by dripton »

dripton wrote: post #89
tomjakubowski wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla, for example, still doesn't have an official Nurburgring lap time because it simply isn't able to drive at racing speeds for long enough without the battery overheating and reducing power output to avoid damage Now I'm really curious: with a limit on the Tesla's performance to keep the battery from overheating, what's the fastest time it could do? That they don't have an official lap time for this reason stri…

Here's an 8:50 lap (amateur driver) with a P85D. From 2015. The 3 is better on the track than the S. Still heavy, of course.

Oops, missed the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dphw4km60m4
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