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Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

russ.app

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Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#81

Post by munk-a »

AJ007 wrote: post #69
jdboyd wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He shouldn't get a monopoly, but going from 1 to not in the top 400 overnight is suspicious. Not that Apple ever promised that wouldn't happen. But it is probably worth complaining about publicly in case that helps shake something loose.

If an Apple employee connected to a competing app was able to remove the search result then that is suspicious. This doesn’t sound particularly different than people who thought they were entitled to whatever search result position on Google due to their SEO effort and built their entire business around non-retaining users. I recall stories of companies getting sales to their e-commerce site, for free, from Google li…

The thing, though, is that Apple has chosen to fully control the market place and search engine. They are fully culpable for any disruptions because they refuse to let their system be audited externally.

There's an argument to be made that if the market is free or allows competing indexes then Apple is less on the hook, but Apple has a stranglehold on how the AppStore works, they've made their bed in this case.

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#82

Post by ballenf »

tedmiston wrote: post #68
danial wrote: post #43

If you're reading this, I'm so sorry this happened to you, Russ. The problem is worse than being de-ranked for your keywords. The search is downright broken. Searching for 'predictive weight loss tracker', 'predictive weight tracker', anything with 'tracker' yields no results on my phone. Removing 'tracker' and only searching for 'Predictive Weight' or 'Predictive Weight Loss' gives me only one result: Happy Scale. I…

It seems like you may be onto something here. When I query "weight loss tracker", what's interesting is that MyFitnessPal comes in at #4 which has a subtitle of "Calorie Counter & Diet Tracker". I also get 0 results for "predictive weight loss tracker" even though that matches the app's subtitle. Seems weird. The Happy Scale app itself does look really well done though. Looking forward to giving it a try.

The number 1 app that comes up for me with the term "weight loss tracker" is called "Monitor Your Weight" and looks significantly less polished than your app. But it uses the term "weight tracker" in the first few words of the app description and not in the subtitle. Your app doesn't use the phrase anywhere in the description that I saw. Maybe subtitles are now ignored for search ranking (due to bug or intentional)?

Nice looking app. You may have gotten a new customer in me.

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#83

Post by britch »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #77
thinkharder wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think both the multiple app store and 'apple isn't responsible for promoting your app' are both red herrings. The issue is that the search function in the app store lies to end users. To use the example in the article, if I go to the app store and search for "weigh loss tracker" I get 5 result, none of which is Happy Scale. The default sort is 'relevance', whatever that means, but i can change that to Most Popular.…

Is this bad faith or unbelievable incompetence on Apple's part? It's tempting to assume the former, but I seriously suspect the latter. As a user I've seen this happen repeatedly. Search can't find an app even if I enter the name. This happens for mundane but specialised apps - train timetables, toll payment apps, and other apps for which there is literally no alternative, never mind one that might somehow sell bette…

I'd argue this is a consequence of a lack of competition. Since there's no where else for you to go, what incentive do they have to fix search? Devs may complain a bit, but Apple still controls enough of the phone market that people are going to continue to make apps out of necessity and Apple will still get paid. As long as people can still find the "big" apps (uber, netflix, tinder, spotify, etc.), there won't be a meaningful outcry from users. It's not like someone is going to switch OS's over this.

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#84

Post by _bxg1 »

rbritton wrote: post #39
_bxg1 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the App Store supports (or could support) this kind of model.

It does not support it on its own. You could build that functionality into an app as far as features go, but how easy they are to isolate will probably vary wildly, and it may be more work than it's worth.

It would mean only pushing updates to some users and not others, which would have to be supported by the App Store. Unless you jerry-rigged some way of separating your "updates" from the actual binary updates distributed by the app store, which, yes, would probably be more work than it's worth.

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#85

Post by root_axis »

benmdi wrote: post #34
_bxg1 wrote: post #29

This is a good argument for having multiple app stores. I don't totally blame Apple's devs here: it's completely imaginable that small, innocent changes in what's no doubt an enormous codebase could have totally unpredictable effects on individual search rankings. The problem is that there's only a single point of articulation. If half a dozen app stores all got search results "mostly right", then little variations l…

Yeah, I agree. I hope the legal system forces Apple to allow opt-in third party app stores. Would go a long way towards alleviating these kinds of situations.

Why should the legal system force Apple to do this? I get that it would prevent this type of scenario, but why should the the law care about this scenario at all?

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#86

Post by mynameisvlad »

stingraycharles wrote: post #22

Reddit did the same. I was a paid user of Alien Blue (no ads), then Reddit acquired it, killed it and now we have the new Reddit ad-rich app.

Not only is this not relevant at all, but Reddit also gave you 4 years of Gold (now Premium) as part of that sunset for buying the paid version. On top of however much use you got out of that initial (and tiny) fee for Alien Blue pro.

Reddit Gold/Premium includes an ad-free experience on their site and app.

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#87

Post by microtherion »

As an Apple employee (not in any role related to the app store), and satisfied user of Happy Scale, I'm sorry to hear about the ranking loss.

On the other hand, it's in the nature of machine learning systems such as search that sometimes, a simple update of the underlying model can lead to drastic changes in search results (say, for argument's sake, that there has been a recent influx of apps using the word "tracker", which could lead to the word being considered essentially noise).

This can happen without any "bug" in the underlying system, even less a sinister agenda to undermine any developer or help another one. So while these possibilities can and should be investigated, ultimately search results will sometimes change.

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#88

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

root_axis wrote: post #85
benmdi wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree. I hope the legal system forces Apple to allow opt-in third party app stores. Would go a long way towards alleviating these kinds of situations.

Why should the legal system force Apple to do this? I get that it would prevent this type of scenario, but why should the the law care about this scenario at all?

Why should MS be forced to promote alternatives to IE?

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#89

Post by root_axis »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #88
root_axis wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the legal system force Apple to do this? I get that it would prevent this type of scenario, but why should the the law care about this scenario at all?

Why should MS be forced to promote alternatives to IE?

MS had a monopoly on x86 operating systems, Apple does not have a monopoly on ARM operating systems.

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#90

Post by _bxg1 »

root_axis wrote: post #85
benmdi wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree. I hope the legal system forces Apple to allow opt-in third party app stores. Would go a long way towards alleviating these kinds of situations.

Why should the legal system force Apple to do this? I get that it would prevent this type of scenario, but why should the the law care about this scenario at all?

Because it's less healthy for capitalism, and the government cares how the economy does.
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