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Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

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Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#81

Post by tracker1 »

closetohome wrote: post #75
s9w wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is quite some data on vegetable oils being unhealthy. Why is that "insanity"?

The insanity is claiming that the oils in Beyond are somehow as bad or worse than the fat found in red meat.

The fats found in red meat are pretty well balanced fats that we, as humans can readily metabolize and use. The risks of saturated fats were never substantiated and walked back significantly in the past decade, and as to cholesterol is actually beneficial to one's numbers (also, see: cholesterol hacking).

Now, the nutrition profile of naturally fed animal sources is very different from garbage/feed fed livestock. Which is another issue at hand.

Personally, I'm allergic to legumes so can't really handle any of the vegetarian options out there.

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#82

Post by tracker1 »

vfc1 wrote: post #5

These fake meat products shouldn't be much healthier than pink slime burgers made of ground beef and fat. Most burgers are made of 20 to 30% fat trimmings anyway, and the rest is ground beef. All types of oils are not good for us, oil in general is not a health food, no even extra virgin olive oil. The backlash against these fake meat products will come slowly but surely, these are not heath foods and should only be…

The human body absolutely needs fats... most highly available sources of protein tend to come with 0.5 to 4g of fat per 1g of protein. If you need 80-120g of protein a day, you should probably be getting 40-80g of fats per day.

Generally speaking most dietary fat for pre-agricultural man would come from fish, meat or fatty fruits and tree nuts. All of which are/were prevalent and common. As to the sourcing, my own opinion is that the more refined the source, the less natural it is... which means that most seed oil sources are anything but natural to take in any significant quantity.

I tend to stick to lard, butter, evoo, avocado oil, and occasional walnut oil for cooking or salad use.

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#83

Post by JamesBarney »

jaworrom wrote: post #77
JamesBarney wrote: post #17

I don't think anyone is arguing that these burgers are healthier than eating salmon and broccoli. Just healthier and more environmentally friendly than ground beef. His complaint is > 8/ My larger concern on both of these burgers is that - at minimum - they are HIGHLY processed products with lots of stuff that doesn't lead to healthier humans: vegetable oils, soy, protein isolates, additives, all non-organic. They ar…

Too much vegetable oil? Your ratio of Omega-3:Omega-6 fatty acids will be out of whack, causing inflammation in the body. Too much soy? There are plenty of PubMed studies that cite soy's effect on hormones and the estrogenic activity that it can cause. It seems to come down to balance.

Vegetable oil isn't especially healthy, but sunflower oil isn't unhealthy compared to the fats in a burger.

Most studies looking at soy's effect on the body find a positive or neutral effect. Only a few(mostly in vitro) studies show the opposite.

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#84

Post by sridca »

cannonedhamster wrote: post #78
undersuit wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't the producers of Beyond Burger also motivated by profit and therefore just as suspect?

I'm going to say yes. You should be just as suspect of health claims and sustainability claims of a plant based burger. But there's generally science to back up that a plant based diet it both better for the environment and better for health reasons than a meat based diet. Does that mean you shouldn't eat meat? I mean, you do you, but if you care about the environment or health generally the veggie burgers are more l…

> But there's generally science to back up that a plant based diet it both better for [...] health reasons than a meat based diet

Try reading these nutritional studies and you will see how much bullshit is behind them. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20029519

It still amazes me that people surrender to nutritional authorities, instead of self-experimenting (cf. Asra Conlu on YouTube) and finding out the facts for themselves.

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#85

Post by closetohome »

sridca wrote: post #84
cannonedhamster wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to say yes. You should be just as suspect of health claims and sustainability claims of a plant based burger. But there's generally science to back up that a plant based diet it both better for the environment and better for health reasons than a meat based diet. Does that mean you shouldn't eat meat? I mean, you do you, but if you care about the environment or health generally the veggie burgers are more l…

> But there's generally science to back up that a plant based diet it both better for [...] health reasons than a meat based diet Try reading these nutritional studies and you will see how much bullshit is behind them. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20029519 It still amazes me that people surrender to nutritional authorities, instead of self-experimenting (cf. Asra Conlu on YouTube) and finding out the facts fo…

Yeah yeah, the meat industry has quibbles with the WHO study connecting red meat to cancer. Shocker.

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#86

Post by sridca »

closetohome wrote: post #85
sridca wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But there's generally science to back up that a plant based diet it both better for [...] health reasons than a meat based diet Try reading these nutritional studies and you will see how much bullshit is behind them. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20029519 It still amazes me that people surrender to nutritional authorities, instead of self-experimenting (cf. Asra Conlu on YouTube) and finding out the facts fo…

Yeah yeah, the meat industry has quibbles with the WHO study connecting red meat to cancer. Shocker.

Have you read those studies yet? If not you are wasting your breath away on borrowed beliefs.

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#87

Post by polyfather »

dfrage wrote: post #76
Lazare wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Canola is, basically, the edible type of rapeseed oil. The name was originally a trademark, but is now a generic term. Australia and NZ also call it "canola", but it's the same oil either way, and it's fairly decent, as far as vegetable oils go.

Per Wikipedia, "the name was a condensation of "Can" from Canada and "ola" from other vegetable oils like Mazola".

Thanks for this. For most of my life I thought it was a sort-of acronym for "CANada Oil, Low Acid" (as it's lower in acid than other rapeseed oils). Your etymology is the correct one.

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#88

Post by vfc1 »

Sawamara wrote: post #67
vfc1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too used to use olive oil every day, but now I haven't used it for years. It's one of the main sources of hidden calories in food, it's very hard to lose weight without cutting it. One tablespoon of olive oil is 120 empty calories, no fiber, no protein and no carbs, minimal volume, almost zero satiety. Yet it has the same caloric amount as a large banana. I don't think micro-nutrients are over-estimated, they are e…

Your body needs fat. Also, olive oil contains plenty of antioxidants, and Vitamin K and E - so the claim that it is just empty calories is pointless. Also, just a thought game for you: if I were to claim that your carbs are just empty calories, and my fat covers those calories too, what would your response be? Because the body can create carbs from fat and fat from carbs, so that point is kinda moot. Just pointing ou…

This is a common myth, the amount of vitamins in olive oil is very modest compared to other foods.

Eating olive oil for vitamins is a bit like smoking for getting oxygen, there are plenty of other ways much healthier to cover those nutritional needs.

The body can create fats from carbs and vice-versa but those processes are not metabolically efficient. That is not the main way our body consumes calories.

Most commonly, carbs are broken down into sugar and fat is either burned as it is or is stored directly as it is, without further modification.

Olive oil and oils, in general, are some of the most calorically dense foods in existence, with very little volume and very little satiety associated with them.

So you get a lot of calories but your body does not register them because they have very little volume, so you stay hungry and keep eating more until you are full.

That is the problem with this very high caloric density, is that you will very easily overheat and not be able to lose weight while eating oils.

That caloric density simply does not exist in nature, and our bodies have not evolved to cope with it, we will constantly overeat which over time leads to obesity.

For example, greeks are some of the heavier people in Europe, a study did a tissue sample of a group of women to check what type of fat they had stored in their abdomen. About a third of it was the fat from olive oil, it sticks to you.

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#89

Post by vfc1 »

tracker1 wrote: post #82
vfc1 wrote: post #5

These fake meat products shouldn't be much healthier than pink slime burgers made of ground beef and fat. Most burgers are made of 20 to 30% fat trimmings anyway, and the rest is ground beef. All types of oils are not good for us, oil in general is not a health food, no even extra virgin olive oil. The backlash against these fake meat products will come slowly but surely, these are not heath foods and should only be…

The human body absolutely needs fats... most highly available sources of protein tend to come with 0.5 to 4g of fat per 1g of protein. If you need 80-120g of protein a day, you should probably be getting 40-80g of fats per day. Generally speaking most dietary fat for pre-agricultural man would come from fish, meat or fatty fruits and tree nuts. All of which are/were prevalent and common. As to the sourcing, my own op…

The body needs fats but many plant foods have some fat on it. Oats for example are 17% fat, so if you eat them for breakfast that is a great start.

Most nuts and seeds are also almost 100% fat, plus many fruits and vegetables contain some fat.

You mention 80-120g of protein a day, that is probably more like 50g. Most people overeat on protein, which leads to all sort of issues like kidney problems, etc.

On the other hand, most people don't eat enough fiber, which leads to all sorts of digestive issues that are consider normal but are not.

For example, getting diarrhea or constipation every other month, carrying around anti-diarrhea pills, etc.

This is not normal and does not happen while eating enough whole plant foods, but it's socially considered normal because its so prevalent.

Most people get 15g or less of fiber per day, while they should be getting 30 to 50, that is one the main problem with the western diet, and not the lack of protein.

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#90

Post by Sawamara »

vfc1 wrote: post #89
tracker1 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The human body absolutely needs fats... most highly available sources of protein tend to come with 0.5 to 4g of fat per 1g of protein. If you need 80-120g of protein a day, you should probably be getting 40-80g of fats per day. Generally speaking most dietary fat for pre-agricultural man would come from fish, meat or fatty fruits and tree nuts. All of which are/were prevalent and common. As to the sourcing, my own op…

The body needs fats but many plant foods have some fat on it. Oats for example are 17% fat, so if you eat them for breakfast that is a great start. Most nuts and seeds are also almost 100% fat, plus many fruits and vegetables contain some fat. You mention 80-120g of protein a day, that is probably more like 50g. Most people overeat on protein, which leads to all sort of issues like kidney problems, etc. On the other…

You are bullshitting against fats and vegetables, for what reason I do not know.

But nuts and seeds are NOT "almost 100%" percent fat. They range from fat contents of 30g to upwards 70-75g per 100g (walnuts, for example, are on a higher end of this, so are hazelnuts. Almonds, pistachio are the middle ground, while peanuts - technically legume, I know -are on the lower side.

The rest? 8-10 percent carbs, 10g+ fiber (some contain less, some much more), and anything between 10 to 30% protein (highest ones, again are almonds and peanuts, and sesame seeds).

This is very easy to verify, you just need to do a quick googling. I do not know why anyone would clame this. Some of your other claims are going to be harder to look up, so I would like some citations, like the ones with olive oils STICKING TO YOUR ABDOMEN :P

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