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Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

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Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#81

Post by julienfr112 »

anewhnaccount2 wrote: post #60
dalbasal wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" They made a good browser, did some marketing and it got popular. " They did make a good browser. However, their market share is not down to better browser or "some advertising." They use their other assets (search, youtube, android, docs..) to make chrome the "default" option. It's a dominance breeds dominance cycle... a hallmark of modern monopoly. Chrome wouldn't have gotten anywhere if it wasn't a very good brow…

If you search for Firefox, Google says "did you mean Chrome?" Edited to add: This has actually happened to me when setting up a new Windows PC for someone.

That's fuel for a millions dollars lawsuit by the European Commission.

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#82

Post by zaarn »

syshum wrote: post #62
writepub wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not trust Google, but I do not trust Mozilla either. An overwhelming majority of Mozilla funding comes from Google, Microsoft, and other giants it directly competes with. Added to that, many of it's battles (at the W3C and like) prioritize philosophy over customer satisfaction and ease of use. 99.9% of browser users don't care or don't even know if their browser is open source - what they want is convenience and…

I dont believe Mozilla prioritizes their philosophy enough, they are tooo quick to cave in in the name of "customer centricity" instead of standing up for the Open Web which is and should be the SOLE reason they exist Mozilla Foundation is a Non-profit foundation who mission to the ensure the web is open and accessible to all, not to make the most commercially successful web browser

If nobody uses their browser and nobody contributes to their project, then the point of defending an open web is kinda moot.

It's not the hill I want Mozilla's philosophy to die on because if they do (and they will if they do as you ask), then there is no point to it. The open web dies to thundering applause from Google employees.

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#83

Post by icebraining »

gingabriska wrote: post #55
bad_user wrote: post #5

In the case of Chrome, you can't blame Google. They made a good browser, did some marketing and it got popular. However the current situation is worrisome, because alternative implementations are dying and in the case of the web, diversity is important. Both Opera and Microsoft's Edge are now powered by Chromium. Chromium is a project controlled by Google. Its redeeming quality, in terms of its open source nature, is…

> They made a good browser, did some marketing and it got popular In initial days of chrome, it wasn't that better. It grew in popularity because of the bundle model of advertising they employed which was initially used to distribute spyware and the browser started growing. All the nice things came later.

It had an uncluttered UI, multi-process tabs, sandboxing, V8, Incognito, and a few more. Some of these were available in other browsers, but the mix was rather new.

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#85

Post by icebraining »

hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #69
mda wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case Chrome was actually miles better and secure than those old browsers though. It wasn't deceiving, it was the truth.

Better than Chromium?

Did they show that message to Chromium users?

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#86

Post by sascha_sl »

jakeogh wrote: post #61
bad_user wrote: post #5

In the case of Chrome, you can't blame Google. They made a good browser, did some marketing and it got popular. However the current situation is worrisome, because alternative implementations are dying and in the case of the web, diversity is important. Both Opera and Microsoft's Edge are now powered by Chromium. Chromium is a project controlled by Google. Its redeeming quality, in terms of its open source nature, is…

Surf works excellent: https://surf.suckless.org/

yes, because "compile webkit yourself" is super suckless

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#87

Post by zaarn »

ilaksh wrote: post #46
ishan1121 wrote: post #2

Google is a clear monopoly, there's no doubt about it. It has a 70% browser market share, 70% market share in the search ecosystem. Even though their service is good and people are happy, I think they need to be broken down for the sake of keeping an open internet. Even Facebook for that matter. That's my opinion

I don't know what you can do about browsers besides use Firefox. But as far as other stuff, I hope people will give distributed p2p possibilities some consideration in terms of usage or development. For example YaCy works pretty well as a p2p search engine. There are some others that I haven't tried. Back to the browser stuff. The problem is the browser has a full operating system in it at this point. There are too m…

YaCy works and in my experience that's pretty much the extend of it. I never (not a single time) found what I was looking for, vital sites like StackOverflow and Wikipedia aren't properly indexed, the pages that are, are wildly out of date. That plus it's incredibly slow.

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#88

Post by ovi256 »

martin_a wrote: post #32
scarejunba wrote: post #13

What's the steelman argument for Google withholding Widevine from Samuel Maddock? Electron packaging with Widevine is a thing so this seems unusual. If you are Google and you're the good guy, why are you doing this?

> If you are Google and you're the good guy, why are you doing this? What if you aren't actually the good guy?

He's basically asking if there's any reasonable theory fitting the fact that Google withheld Widevine and the hypothesis that Google is a good guy.

The jump to the null hypothesis that you've stated is made too soon without doing this first.

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#89

Post by macspoofing »

dalbasal wrote: post #45
bad_user wrote: post #5

In the case of Chrome, you can't blame Google. They made a good browser, did some marketing and it got popular. However the current situation is worrisome, because alternative implementations are dying and in the case of the web, diversity is important. Both Opera and Microsoft's Edge are now powered by Chromium. Chromium is a project controlled by Google. Its redeeming quality, in terms of its open source nature, is…

" They made a good browser, did some marketing and it got popular. " They did make a good browser. However, their market share is not down to better browser or "some advertising." They use their other assets (search, youtube, android, docs..) to make chrome the "default" option. It's a dominance breeds dominance cycle... a hallmark of modern monopoly. Chrome wouldn't have gotten anywhere if it wasn't a very good brow…

>However, their market share is not down to better browser or "some advertising."

No. Their market share is wholly due to being a better browser. That is an absolutely true statement when it comes to Windows and PC. It gets muddled with Android, because there you can make a case that they push Chrome as a default browser.

>Firefox slowly climbed to the middle, by being very good. They never got to 50% of the market.

It was a different time. FF did wonderful work with moving to a standards-based web and breaking IE hegemony, but they got blindsided by Chrome's relentless drive to squeeze every frame of performance out of JavaScript and WebKit. That's the thing with Chrome, they were not only pushing web standards forward, but more importantly they were pushing performance and security in a way that FF could not follow. Around the time that Chrome came out, FF was starting to struggle with a legacy architecture and that made it impossible for them to keep up with Chrome.

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#90

Post by syshum »

zaarn wrote: post #82
syshum wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont believe Mozilla prioritizes their philosophy enough, they are tooo quick to cave in in the name of "customer centricity" instead of standing up for the Open Web which is and should be the SOLE reason they exist Mozilla Foundation is a Non-profit foundation who mission to the ensure the web is open and accessible to all, not to make the most commercially successful web browser

If nobody uses their browser and nobody contributes to their project, then the point of defending an open web is kinda moot. It's not the hill I want Mozilla's philosophy to die on because if they do (and they will if they do as you ask), then there is no point to it. The open web dies to thundering applause from Google employees.

Same result if they cave in to everything Google does in lock step with them as they do today?

I fail to see how having FireFox around has a Chrome Clone is in anyway different

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