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Buying an IBM Mainframe

blog.mainframe.dev

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Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#81

Post by Spooky23 »

jschwartzi wrote: post #78
jandrese wrote: post #74

My interest in doing this (my wife would kill me anyway) kind of evaporated when in almost every paragraph he hit on licensing issues you might have. What a headache for someone who just wants to tinker on the hardware and maybe buy a few parts off ebay for the full experience. I have no doubt software updates, documentation, and everything is locked behind some portal that requires you to have a stupidly expensive s…

My second thought about this was "no wonder IBM is largely dead outside of stodgy corporate IT. Nobody can actually learn to use it without dropping $100,000+ on equipment."

It’s worse than that. Most of these environments are in the stodgiest corner of those companies. I worked with one a long time ago as a consultant where we struggled with an authentication related issue.

The response from the service owners was that they weren’t going to switch to a new, unproven methodology. In this case the “new” thing was around since like 1989 (this happened circa 2003). They still use whatever they were using today.

As a new hire, you’re screwed. Anyone getting into mainframes is insane.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#82

Post by dboreham »

jandrese wrote: post #74

My interest in doing this (my wife would kill me anyway) kind of evaporated when in almost every paragraph he hit on licensing issues you might have. What a headache for someone who just wants to tinker on the hardware and maybe buy a few parts off ebay for the full experience. I have no doubt software updates, documentation, and everything is locked behind some portal that requires you to have a stupidly expensive s…

Shout out to HP (fka Dec) with their support for hobby use of VMS. I have a couple of VAXen (just desktop microvax, no need to get excited) that I had running 15 years ago using the hobby license, which it seems still exists : https://www.hpe.com/h41268/live/index_e.aspx?qid=24548

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#84

Post by pickle-wizard »

jschwartzi wrote: post #78
jandrese wrote: post #74

My interest in doing this (my wife would kill me anyway) kind of evaporated when in almost every paragraph he hit on licensing issues you might have. What a headache for someone who just wants to tinker on the hardware and maybe buy a few parts off ebay for the full experience. I have no doubt software updates, documentation, and everything is locked behind some portal that requires you to have a stupidly expensive s…

My second thought about this was "no wonder IBM is largely dead outside of stodgy corporate IT. Nobody can actually learn to use it without dropping $100,000+ on equipment."

Back when I was at IBM one of the hats I wore was AS/400 administrator and programmer.

I miss working with it and would like to buy one for my home lab, but the licensing is a killer. I find used ones on the market, but they usually don't include the license keys or media, and without a support contract can't get them.

I really wish IBM had a hobbyist program. I wouldn't expect it be free, but I wouldn't mind paying a small yearly fee.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#85

Post by pickle-wizard »

kev009 wrote: post #14

It's a lot cheaper in to do this in the US and with a long term view, my total outlay was under $3000 for a z800, z114, ds6800 all in with transportation. I also temporarily had two DS8870s but resold them because they were worth a lot more than I paid and I will pick up another for cheaper over the course of this year. Both of my frames have HMCs, the z114 was even IBM banded and "MSQ" maintenance service qualified…

If you want to dabble with mainframe. Another option is the IBM zPDT. It is an emulator that runs on AIX or Linux. It does require a physical USB hardware key. It is kind of pricy about $5K from IBM, but there might be discounts. I believe that also get the z/OS and z/VM software and licenses also.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#86

Post by jasonhansel »

jasonhansel wrote: post #77

My current side project idea: build a modern programming language with a nice syntax that compiles (transpiles?) to mainframe COBOL, mostly to get mainframe programmers to stop writing code in SHOUTING ALL CAPS.

Note: is anyone interested in using something like this? If so, let me know! I'm curious as to how I can make it useful for people in the field.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#87

Post by Causality1 »

bluecmd wrote: post #38
Causality1 wrote: post #3

He dropped over $23,000 on a mainframe just to "play with and learn how it works"? Finally he can run a personal Minecraft server.

Would you have liked the project more if the price was not disclosed?

Oh I love the project. I'm just in awe of spending that much money for something you don't have a clear and present need for.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#88

Post by kev009 »

pickle-wizard wrote: post #85
kev009 wrote: post #14

It's a lot cheaper in to do this in the US and with a long term view, my total outlay was under $3000 for a z800, z114, ds6800 all in with transportation. I also temporarily had two DS8870s but resold them because they were worth a lot more than I paid and I will pick up another for cheaper over the course of this year. Both of my frames have HMCs, the z114 was even IBM banded and "MSQ" maintenance service qualified…

If you want to dabble with mainframe. Another option is the IBM zPDT. It is an emulator that runs on AIX or Linux. It does require a physical USB hardware key. It is kind of pricy about $5K from IBM, but there might be discounts. I believe that also get the z/OS and z/VM software and licenses also.

Yes that entitles you to a lot of software, so it is a good deal for professional use.

If you are just curious on the software side at home, Hercules is an amazing project.

For students IBM does a "Master the Mainframe" contest where you can get remote access to an environment and see what it is like as a user and developer.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#90

Post by monocasa »

jasonhansel wrote: post #76
altmind wrote: post #26

Are there any sucess virtualizing z/OS on x86_64? This mainframe is quite anemic even by modern desktop standarts.

IBM makes it illegal for customers to build emulators for most mainframe products, to protect their business.

Everyone in that scene knows that it's not enforceable. Gene Amdahl literally started his own company making plug and software compatible mainframes, and IBM got hit with antitrust rulings trying to shut him down with lawyers.
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