Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

American life is improving for the lowest paid

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 135 posts

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#81

Post by ghaff »

henrikschroder wrote: post #72
Barrin92 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus I didn't know that. I knew that the US had a debate about maternity leave, but I thought the US had paid annual leave. Here in Germany everyone gets 24 working days off, I don't think I'd survive a year without it.

Even for high-paid white-collar jobs, you normally don't get a lot of paid time off in the US. Two weeks, typically. Three weeks is seen as generous. These days off are then typically used piecemeal, a day here, a long weekend there, some days around christmas, a family trip here. A whole week off is seen as weird. I worked at a company where that was the standard, but every five years (!) you could apply for a whole…

A whole week off is not seen as weird in most of the US. I’ve had 3-4 weeks of vacation for decades and I’ve always taken pretty much every day. Among many of the people I’ve known that was by no means unusual.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#82

Post by NeedMoreTea »

henrikschroder wrote: post #72
Barrin92 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus I didn't know that. I knew that the US had a debate about maternity leave, but I thought the US had paid annual leave. Here in Germany everyone gets 24 working days off, I don't think I'd survive a year without it.

Even for high-paid white-collar jobs, you normally don't get a lot of paid time off in the US. Two weeks, typically. Three weeks is seen as generous. These days off are then typically used piecemeal, a day here, a long weekend there, some days around christmas, a family trip here. A whole week off is seen as weird. I worked at a company where that was the standard, but every five years (!) you could apply for a whole…

> A whole week off is seen as weird.

Hang on. So even if you have paid leave, is a yearly week or two's holiday really not usual in the US? You know to go spend a week hiking or skiing in the Rockies, or fortnight camping, or whatever is your thing.

Not being able to take a week or two straight to get away from civilisation would have me clawing the walls going stir crazy, and I'd probably find myself divorced. Quite apart from the practicality - a long weekend isn't going to work to visit Europe or anything remotely long haul. Even a weekend break taking in the Grand Canyon if you happen to be on the east coast barely works, it certainly isn't going to leave any time to chill and unwind.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#83

Post by roenxi »

themagician wrote: post #34
aphextron wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I may be getting it wrong as I don't live in US, but does it mean he only gets one week of holidays per year? Yes, and even that is a rarity for wage workers. >Is there any other form of paid off time? Nope. Most hourly workers are lucky to get a few unpaid sick days. Have an accident, or get sick and need to spend a couple weeks in the hospital? Now you're unemployed and bankrupt.

This is both true and mind boggling to me. I employ 5-10 unskilled people at any given time. Mostly for assembly and packing. They get two weeks PTO, and at least a week of paid vacation throughout the year when we close for holidays, mostly more. At the end of the day the total annual cost to provide this is well worth the drama it keeps out of the workplace. Sick days? Take as many as you need. I don’t want sick pe…

> This is both true and mind boggling to me.

We all come into this with a lot of context. However, America has I think something like the highest average and median wages outside the Nordics [0, 1]. And the Nordics are potentially a statistical aberration.

If somebody "gets" 2 weeks of paid time off, but at the end of the year their average salary is (50/52)% of someone who gets no PTO, are they really being paid for time off? It doesn't look paid to me.

The real benefit would be a culture where you can take unpaid time off then return to the same job later on. The per-hour pay is likely to correct quietly via ye olde market forces, and everyone enjoys the best of all worlds. High pay if they want it, time off if they want it.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_w...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#84

Post by dragonwriter »

henrikschroder wrote: post #72
Barrin92 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus I didn't know that. I knew that the US had a debate about maternity leave, but I thought the US had paid annual leave. Here in Germany everyone gets 24 working days off, I don't think I'd survive a year without it.

Even for high-paid white-collar jobs, you normally don't get a lot of paid time off in the US. Two weeks, typically. Three weeks is seen as generous. These days off are then typically used piecemeal, a day here, a long weekend there, some days around christmas, a family trip here. A whole week off is seen as weird. I worked at a company where that was the standard, but every five years (!) you could apply for a whole…

> Even for high-paid white-collar jobs, you typically don't get a lot of paid time off in the US. Two weeks, typically

Two weeks at 1 year, three weeks at 5 years, and 4 weeks at 20 years, typically. (That's tenure at one company, not total experience.)

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/05/heres-how-many-paid-vacation...

EDIT: And note, lots of workers don't get separate paid sick leave, and those that do get very small allotments compared to anywhere else in the developed world.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#85

Post by ghaff »

chungleong wrote: post #74
ghaff wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You end up without health insurance coverage There's COBRA although, of course, you don't have the employer portion paid for any longer. I'm a bit skeptical that the typical person takes a lot of time off between jobs. If you've already got a position lined up, your new employer probably wants you to start as soon as possible. You can probably negotiate 2 or 3 weeks but, in most cases, I expect a real sabbatical wou…

There certainly are a lot of Americans who mismanage their finances. Standard advice is to have at least six months of saving at your disposal. If you can't take a afford a break at a time of your own choosing then how are you going to cope when you get laid off during a recession?

It's one thing to have a reserve for emergencies and another to tap into that reserve because you want to take a few months off before looking for a new job. Though absolutely nothing wrong with that if you're in the position to do so and it's a priority.

But I've always taken a lot of vacation, including a number of trips up to a month while working. The one time recently when I had a job lined up I did push things out a few weeks which was just fine. The time before that was in the middle of the dot-com bubble bursting and I considered myself lucky to get something fairly quickly; it could easily have been many months+.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#86

Post by henrikschroder »

ghaff wrote: post #81
henrikschroder wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even for high-paid white-collar jobs, you normally don't get a lot of paid time off in the US. Two weeks, typically. Three weeks is seen as generous. These days off are then typically used piecemeal, a day here, a long weekend there, some days around christmas, a family trip here. A whole week off is seen as weird. I worked at a company where that was the standard, but every five years (!) you could apply for a whole…

A whole week off is not seen as weird in most of the US. I’ve had 3-4 weeks of vacation for decades and I’ve always taken pretty much every day. Among many of the people I’ve known that was by no means unusual.

Sorry for generalizing. In my experience, it was very rare for people to use up all their vacation, and people were routinely used to being denied vacation time for whatever business reason, both at my company, and previous companies. Don't know how common it is across Silicon Valley, but it exists at least.

We had to push people into taking vacations in my team, and we never, ever denied vacation requests, as long as people had earned the time off.

I really wish people were more pushy about their vacation time, because they've earned it, just like they've earned their salary. Not taking vacation time is essentially giving money to your company, which is dumb, because you get nothing in return.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#87

Post by phd514 »

leokennis wrote: post #52
sosborn wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Working in the US SUCKS for everyone. Simply not true. Every 12 months I get three weeks PTO and three weeks sick leave (which is also paid and not connected to my vacation time). PTO will soon jump to 4 weeks after another year of working at my job. I know it isn't this good for everyone, but to say that working in the US sucks for everyone is a ridiculous statement.

Of course “everyone” is never true. But for example in The Netherlands, 4.5 weeks of paid leave is the bare minimum (like even if you flip burgers you get at least that). If you’re e sick, you get paid leave for multiple months and after that, still 70% is paid. Your health endurance is not held hostage by your employer; for a small monthly fee ( Every country has their own Stockholm Syndromes where they think they’v…

Eh, not necessarily. In my field (tech-related), I make substantially more than I would in the Netherlands and my tax burden is also substantially lower. I get 4 weeks of PTO plus 10 holidays every year and I never use it all. That is certainly not what everyone would prefer, but it suits me just fine.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#88

Post by bosie »

roenxi wrote: post #83
themagician wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is both true and mind boggling to me. I employ 5-10 unskilled people at any given time. Mostly for assembly and packing. They get two weeks PTO, and at least a week of paid vacation throughout the year when we close for holidays, mostly more. At the end of the day the total annual cost to provide this is well worth the drama it keeps out of the workplace. Sick days? Take as many as you need. I don’t want sick pe…

> This is both true and mind boggling to me. We all come into this with a lot of context. However, America has I think something like the highest average and median wages outside the Nordics [0, 1]. And the Nordics are potentially a statistical aberration. If somebody "gets" 2 weeks of paid time off, but at the end of the year their average salary is (50/52)% of someone who gets no PTO, are they really being paid for…

> If somebody "gets" 2 weeks of paid time off, but at the end of the year their average salary is (50/52)% of someone who gets no PTO, are they really being paid for time off? It doesn't look paid to me.

How much does it cost an american worker to take 2 weeks off? If that means unemployment, new job search and your own health care payments, it might be much more expensive than that.

> median wage ... OECD

any idea how they calculated the purchasing power for the US?

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#89

Post by ghaff »

henrikschroder wrote: post #86
ghaff wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A whole week off is not seen as weird in most of the US. I’ve had 3-4 weeks of vacation for decades and I’ve always taken pretty much every day. Among many of the people I’ve known that was by no means unusual.

Sorry for generalizing. In my experience, it was very rare for people to use up all their vacation, and people were routinely used to being denied vacation time for whatever business reason, both at my company, and previous companies. Don't know how common it is across Silicon Valley, but it exists at least. We had to push people into taking vacations in my team, and we never, ever denied vacation requests, as long a…

I totally agree. Based on numbers I've seen people in the US do better than their stereotype. But a lot of people still leave vacation on the table in a way that is foreign to me.

Sure, some companies are dysfunctional in this respect. But, it's also true that at a company I worked at for a long time where I pretty much saved up my vacation for month trips on a number of occasions, a fair number of people couldn't really understand how I could do this. (My managers had no problems and I did quite well there for over a decade.)

In all fairness, I've also worked with people who didn't like to travel and got bored with staycations so they didn't take much of their time. Alien to me but I sorta get it to some degree.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#90

Post by dj_gitmo »

peisistratos wrote: post #65

The article text does not really support the headline > By last year, the poorest 10% were still earning only a miserly 4.1% more per hour than they did (in real wages) 40 years ago. Median hourly pay for America’s workers was up a little more, by 14%. With exactly 40 years ago being in the midst of a wage downturn. Go back a little more and real hourly wages have fallen for both groups, despite GDP etc. booming for…

I actually like some things about the Economist and I subscribed for years. I feel like people would be better informed about the world if they read it. That said, it's absolutely dripping with ideology and you need to know how to read it. It's a cheerleader for Capitalism, kinda like the Financial Times. https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/05/how-the-economist-thi...
Post reply on HN