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Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

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Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#81
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So the companies always had a successful exit even if the codebase passed onto the acquiring company or to the public investors had major issues.. so at least in my experience there's no feedback loop to correct the issues. In a sense, it sounds like there is nothing to correct! Would moving more slowly and deliberately have improved the exit, or worsened it? Perhaps code quality has only a tenuous link to business…

I periodically think about this line I found on the C2 wiki: "I believe it is time to explicitly state the long held secret of software, we do not need to do design; design is ineffective and costly." --Wayne Mack It's really hard to argue with a money printing machine. That theoretically it might print faster or at least longer for a bigger integral, after doing things that seem to slow down printing now, is also ha…

That sounds like a line by someone who has never seen the disaster that some incompetent people can do. Design is not necessarily something done by a kind of mythical "architect" (whatever that means...); instead, a good programmer simply very often write software that has a good design.

And I would say than in most areas, design is effective and required.

NT works. 9x is long-dead (and even 9x had tons of design, but there was just a gap too immense on some fundamentals to get anywhere)

I would even make the hypothesis that good design is always eventually effective and required, but the period of time after which lack of proper design hits you badly varies, and in some fields it is actually longer than the lifetime of the product...

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#82
post #9

I'm ready for what comes next after Agile. I've been through about 5 Agile shops now. I would say one of the 5 ran Agile well, the rest were a mess that just makes it frustrating for everyone. What we mostly have now is watered down agile.. the worst bits of agile like never actually "designing" anything, but we don't really have any of the good bits of the older management processes left over. I don't really want fu…

>So the companies always had a successful exit even if the codebase passed onto the acquiring company or to the public investors had major issues.. so at least in my experience there's no feedback loop to correct the issues. In a sense, it sounds like there is nothing to correct! Would moving more slowly and deliberately have improved the exit, or worsened it? Perhaps code quality has only a tenuous link to business…

[deleted]

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#83
post #24

Does any one have good (as in: known to actually have had a positive effect in the past) insights on how to convince your manager(s) that (at least their version of) "agile" is not helping the company? My wife works in a company where the managements seems to be quite "proud" to apply "agile methods" but in my wife's opinion, it's more BS bingo than producing a measurable boost in productivity, quality, or any other…

Guys - thanks very much for your input but note my original question. I know that what you say is right about why what they do in my wife's company is not the way things should be done. But my question was: what can be done to improve a situation like that? And not just specifically for my wife, I'm asking the more general question for others who are in similar situations.

The example I gave about the daily meetings was just that: an example, meant to illustrate why my wife thinks that it seems more important for their managers to pat their backs about using "agile methods" than to actually know what they're doing.

That said - I'd also like to point your attention to another commenter here who pointed out that the original authors of the agile manifesto were actually trying to achieve a less strictly structured work methodology. However, I get from your comments about how a daily meeting "is supposed to be done" that some of you seem to indeed have pretty strict ideas about what constitutes agile and what doesn't. So that is kind of an interesting observation in itself, I think.

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#84
I would recommend for the author of this article to read the original Agile manifesto and point out where the so called Agile methods and resourcing models are described.

I am often only resourced 10% to some Agile projects, because my expertise is often only required for a small part of the project. And yes a copy writer can do my job as well, but would you really let an average electrician build the timber structure of your roof while the plumber wires your house ?

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#85
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't follow the "what you did yesterday, what you plan on doing today, is there anything blocking you" pattern? And the whole department is on one scrum team? No one should lack for something to say or have to make anything up. It is a simple status synchronization with your team. The only pressure anyone should be under is remembering what they did the day before and prioritizing what to do today.

No and yes for your two questions respectively (although I'm not 100% sure about the "no" to the first question). That's what I meant when I said that their interpretation of agile seems really pointless. It seems like it's more important to have the "agile" label stuck to themselves than whether whatever they think that labels stands for brings about any positive effects.

Well that's awful.

Do they have retrospectives?

That is when I would have my teams go over what went poorly (and well) and how to improve the system - including things like how meetings are run.

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#86
post #78

Dave Thomas, one of the original authors of the Agile Manifesto [1] wrote an article called "Time to Kill Agile" [2] a few years ago (which he subsequently re-titled "Agile is Dead"). He has some good insight on how Agile (the methodology) got to be something very different from what they intended. Originally they were trying to break away from a rigid methodology, not introduce a whole new one. Unfortunately, if you…

Good piece, but this made me chuckle: > It’s easy to tack the word “agile” onto just about anything. Agility is harder to misappropriate. I'm pretty sure it'll take more than an extra syllable to save an idea from being dumbed down by marketing people.

It's more like a brand vs an idea. The word "Agile" was used (like that, capitalized) mostly as a way to designate adherence to a procedural cult (e.g. the Scrum cult) and usage of specific words looking like newspeak (Sprint, Stories, Epics).

The concept of agility, with the word taken as in its common word meaning, does not actually need all that bullshit. Well, neither does the general concept of being agile in the first place, but it is harder to distinguish from the now tainted one "Agile".

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#87
It’s notable that the ratio of “that’s not really agile” to “this _is_ agile” comments in discussions like this is typically about 10:1. Everyone knows what agile isn’t but no one can seem to explain exactly what it _is_.

Furthermore, the “you’re holding it wrong” criticism of everyone who gets poor results from agile, which seems to be a majority of people attempting to use agile practices according to articles like this and comments ITT, is a major cop out. If 75% of people attempting to use a tool hurt themselves with it, you should start asking whether this was a well designed tool in the first place.

My solution: stop using the term “agile.” It’s so vague and means so many things to different people that it effectively means nothing. Instead, talk about specific practices (sprints, story points, etc) and be able to explain the purpose of each practice. This can clear away the agile fog and get people discussing actual trade offs rather than agile magic dust.

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#88
I was a late comer to software development so my career is relatively short at this point. I have worked for 2 different shops and had wildly different experiences with agile.

The first is a fortune 500 company that is not a techy company. They have a lot crusty old infrastructure and when they decided to do agile, they hired a consultant company that came in and spent a lot of time training everyone in their "agile" methodology. I can say without sarcasm that it worked great. It was painful at first and it took probably a year for everyone to adapt, but I was very pleased with the end result. Agile didn't mean, don't do design. For us, Agile meant to always be designing. We set aside 2 hours every week to sit down as a team and design future features, as well as evaluate current architecture and propose changes. Outside those 2 hours, devs would do additional design as needed. We had one hour every week for a long form meeting for our BA's, product experts and development team to all get on the same page for business requirements and future product direction. In addition, the product team was available for consultation almost every day, and never fewer than 3 times a week. Our retrospectives were rigorous, and by the time I left the company, our estimates were excellent. We had gone from almost never being able to finish our sprint correctly to it being a surprise if every story wasn't finished on time. Occasionally business would throw a curveball at us and we would have to scramble to get our backlog and designs into place, but we were still able to finish almost every sprint as promised.

I'm a little over a year into the new place. It's also a Fortune 500 company, but it is know as techy and has a good reputation with the field at large. So far it has been miserable. They're one of those companies that does waterfall with standup. As a result, we have extended periods of torturous drawn out design (one guy went six months without writing a line of code for work), followed by a mad scramble to implement our designs as we realize we're running out of time. As a result, the documentation looks nice, but the code is a mess and doesn't always match the documentation. Since the team can't self organize, tech debt continues to accrue at a terrific rate. Small stories are awkward because the pipeline and commit process is too difficult and slow to justify it. Part of the problem is the lack of business analysts. Without that intermediate group to help manage business complexity, the developers are left doing an extensive amount of basic requirements gathering just to get started on a problem. In addition, there's no real institutional memory, and when business flows change, there's no one around to update old docs with the new changes. There's no real story grooming, so we routinely overshoot our sprints. Without a clear understanding of how product and development are supposed to interact, priorities are changing constantly and I've been shuffled between two projects almost at random.

I could go for hours about the two different companies but I think the difference boil down to one simple factor. The first company had a culture of continuous improvement. They had their share of failings, mostly related to not being a very techy company, but everyone in that company was deeply committed to constantly making things better. Pain points were either quarantined so as not to impede work, or they were called out and fixed. If something couldn't be fixed or quarantined, than it was tracked until everyone was so sick of talking about it, we'd find the time to fix it. The second company does not have such a culture. Everyone is very comfortable with the status quo no matter how much it slows things down. Things are starting to get a little better, but not much.

I think Agile worked well with the first company because everyone was already interested in constantly improving. Agile gave them a framework to evaluate their performance and improve it. Without that culture of constant improvement the second company just adopted the most cosmetic practices of Agile, without actually changing anything, or evaluating their own behavior.

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#89
post #8

The article presents too many Agile/Scrum "artifacts" for my taste, eg Agile favors so-called T-shaped skills Adam Smith would be turning in his grave Agile is a true democracy LOL The Agile philosophy certainly has something to say, but it's not hard to see the possible negative implications of "self-managing/self-policing teams" when they're owned by capitalist organizations. These kinds of ninja teams can be extre…

i feel very much this gets close to the issue. (for me at least)

if agile is supposed to empower the team to self-improve and self-organize, then being placed into a top-down hierarchy where the upper levels are always in charge anyways is a contradiction in itself and is a huge cause of disappointment that it’s “not working”...

well of course it’s not working if i it’s being imposed by “the top” and for their own reasons... right from the start it’s not team-centered, so there you go.

Re: Everyone claims they are following “agile methods” but few do (2018)

#90
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what it's for. To put a finer point on it, a daily stand-up meeting should be no more than 15 minutes long, and about three specific things. Each person should talk about exactly these three things (or less, if you can say that one or more of them are not known or relevant yet): 1. What am I working on now 2. What is in the way of getting this thing done 3. What will I work on next The value of the sta…

15 minutes? Even 5 minutes is long. With an average 7 person scrum team, they should take no more than 3 minutes. I disagree talking about yesterday provides no value. Talking about yesterday, in my experience, dramatically improves people's ability to accurately identify and prioritize what they have to do today. Plus, it provides a forum to communicate unexpected interruptions that may need to be dealt with by the…

5 minutes for 7 people? Something is wrong with your math, you might get the meeting over with in 5 minutes on the best day, but it won't have been very valuable or informative.

How exactly are you supposed to make three whole statements per person and also leave room for helpful reactions and questions... in an average of 14 seconds per person-statement and response?

That might be how long it takes if nobody has anything to say in response, but it won't be the average, more like the floor.

Either we're not talking about the same thing, or your dev team are moonlighting as auctioneers.

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