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U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

nytimes.com

81–90 of 131 posts

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#81

This seems like it will inevitably discourage victims from reporting crime. Imagine a scenario where someone is mugged but doesn't want to report it to the police because they have some texts from their weed dealer on their phone: as a result the mugger never gets reported and may mug somebody else. Not to mention the huge opportunities it creates for a kind of blackmail (criminal A commits a crime against criminal B…

Better yet, you can remotely plant discouragement on someone's phone. Catfish someone, send some nudes, reveal as slightly underage. You can then even explicitly mention the blackmail, since even if they could eventually prove it was just a catfish, it would be a huge hassle to do so.

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#82

This seems like it will inevitably discourage victims from reporting crime. Imagine a scenario where someone is mugged but doesn't want to report it to the police because they have some texts from their weed dealer on their phone: as a result the mugger never gets reported and may mug somebody else. Not to mention the huge opportunities it creates for a kind of blackmail (criminal A commits a crime against criminal B…

> This seems like it will inevitably discourage victims from reporting crime.

Seems like something the British police would be interested in at the moment.

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#83
post #46
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's no hope of a conviction because there's evidence that strongly suggests the events didn't happen it would be better to avoid the trial.

It would, but I wouldn't want to entirely give up victim privacy for it.

If the accused is innocent then they are the victim and the accuser is the perpetrator.

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obstruction of justice?

If the victim has reason to belive their data would lead to a conviction the police wouldn't need to ask for it

This was spurred by the opposite - cases where the accuser's data led to complete exoneration and public apology.

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#85
post #8

> Mr. Ephgrave, the assistant commissioner, acknowledged such concerns in his statement. > “We understand that how personal data is used can be a source of anxiety,” he said. “We would never want victims to feel that they can’t report crimes because of ‘intrusion’ in their data.” > “That’s why a new national form has been introduced,” replacing policies that varied from place to place, “to help police seek informed c…

Not sure about the UK, but in the US the police have no formal duty to protect you. No matter how much warning/info/evidence they have that someone will be victimized, and no matter how easy/reasonable it is for the police to prevent it, citizens are generically not entitled to compensation for failure to be protected. Rather, the police's mission (both formally and as a functional matter) is overwhelmingly about cat…

> in the US the police have no formal duty to protect you

This is one reason why, at least in the US, you should never talk to the police if you're suspected of a crime -- even if you're innocent and it seems that your innocence will be blindingly obvious to them[0]. Anything you say can and will be used against you, and by the rules of evidence, nothing you say to the police can be used for you in court. (Tell them you have a lawyer friend who will never let you live it down if you say anything without speaking to your attorney first.)

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

(IANAL)

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#87
I'm against mass collection to narrow down on potential suspects and solve petty crimes, but if you're ready to ruin someone's life by accusing them of sexual assault or rape, you shouldn't be concerned with some data on your phone, actually, you should be happy the data is there to support your line of events. The fact that cases have been pushed through without such data is what concerns me. Not everyone is an expert communicator who can defend themselves (or avoid making mistakes) in an aggressive police questioning, the data is paramount to get to the truth. I had a friend who falsely accused someone and she was also very reluctant to hand over her phone to police because it would've proved she was out of town with me. Police dropped her case thankfully, so this isn't UK-specific, but I do wonder if the guy would've even got a fair chance given he had a criminal history.

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#88

This is seems fair enough to me, it's an attempt to prevent this kind of thing happening again: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-engla...

Ah, yes, so if you are a victim of a violent crime (let's say, someone mugged you at gunpoint, but did not bruise you - just held you at gunpoint until you surrendered your wallet), it seems perfectly reasonable for the police to hold your phone for weeks or months, searching through all of your photos (including the occasional nude photo of your spouse), in order to MAYBE find that one of your contacts might be a culprit of the theft?

Maybe you delete the nude photos (you are really not comfortable with other people getting to see your naked spouse), but police notice you deleted some photos. How do they not know those aren't evidence of your mugger? They tell you the case is invalid, since deleting photos seems suspicious.

Does not seem fair enough to me.

The incidence of false accusation of rape is fairly low - depending on the statistic you find and country, either less than or roughly at parity with accusation of other crimes - between 2 and 10 percent [1]. Remember that the reporting of rape or sexual assault is low, compared to other crimes - I personally know several women who regularly sport bruises from their abusive partner, but who refuse to turn them in (and I am in no position to turn them in - the choice is entirely up to the victim and will backfire in my losing any ability to help them in the future, if I do).

The cases of false rape accusations, however, tend to be highly visible, since they are often made by a desperate woman seeking to profit off a rich celebrity. Meanwhile, just like car accidents, the media tends to report only the most gruesome crashes/rapes, since this is an event that happens so often that reporting it every time is not newsworthy.

[1] https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC...

Re: U.K. Police Have a Message for Crime Victims: Hand over Your Private Data

#90

This seems like it will inevitably discourage victims from reporting crime. Imagine a scenario where someone is mugged but doesn't want to report it to the police because they have some texts from their weed dealer on their phone: as a result the mugger never gets reported and may mug somebody else. Not to mention the huge opportunities it creates for a kind of blackmail (criminal A commits a crime against criminal B…

> This seems like it will inevitably discourage victims from reporting crime

Indeed. And this new policy will help the police/government to bring down criminality figures. I would be surprised if that is not the actual intent. In a few years they will triumphantly announce that the UK police is doing so well, that it has become a much safer place to live. Welcome to politics.

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