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Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies

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Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies

#81

Post by bmj »

jedbrown wrote: post #79
zzleeper wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a certain beauty in mountain climbing that I doubt any marathon can compete with. That said, maybe they can just climb smaller--but also beautiful--mountains? 6k? 7km? Why does it has to be 8.8km?

Because Everest is on the tick list that non-climbers recognize and because a lot of the lower mountains are much, much harder and nobody will guide them. There is a reason Gasherbrum IV has only been climbed four times (five if you count the 1985 Kurtyka-Schauer route, which is still regarded as one of the most impressive alpine climbs ever), Gasherbrum III has been climbed twice, Khunyang Chhish twice, Bainthha Bra…

Messner's solo ascent is generally considered to be the last time a climber was truly alone on the mountain.

Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies

#82

Post by johnyzee »

wooster wrote: post #27

I recently got back (almost exactly a month ago) from a month long climbing trip in Nepal with some friends. We had three guides, all three of whom have climbed Everest multiple times. One of our guides, who has summited 5 times, described Everest as his "bad habit". As a relative newbie to high altitude mountaineering (the highest I got was ~19,850 feet), climbing in Nepal was really, really hard. You are never warm…

> These were people who no mountaineer in the world would accuse of being irresponsible, inexperienced, unprofessional, or, even, unsafe.

This is what gets me about mountain climbing - you can't really be good at it, at least not in the sense that it will save your life. There are so many unknowable, uncontrollable factors that make the difference between life and death, to the extent that you play Russian Roulette with each climb, the only reward being a spectacular view.

I saw Touching the Void (recommended) a few months ago and it described how on one occasion two climbers basically climbed onto a snow overhang and when it broke it was too late to do anything about it. There was no way to know that they were heading onto an overhang at the time, it looked solid as anything else. This is not a skills-based discipline, just crazy gambling. I don't get it.

Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies

#83

Post by jedbrown »

mks wrote: post #74
jedbrown wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call bullshit. The problem is that certain mountains, notable the "seven summits", most of the 8000m peaks, and a few others such as the Matterhorn, Mont Blanc, and Rainier are overrun by people who are completely clueless. These aren't climbers, they are rich people who want to tick off a box on their list of life accomplishments. These peaks are heavily commercialized and guiding outfits are selling something out…

Nice story. However it takes place at much lower altitude (around 6000m). Trango is great climbing area with demanding climbs but it is entirely different category than Everest. It is not saying that one can not succeed in saving someones life (even if it is highly unlikely). It is more if you are willing to risk your life to do it. If there weren't people risking lifes in rescue there would be no firefighters or mou…

If you ask anyone who has been both places, they will tell you that the Trango rescue or the 1977 Bainthha Brakk epic demonstrate far more tenacity and competence against far thinner odds than these Everest scenarios. This statement includes one of my climbing partners who went back up from high camp after their own long summit day on K2 to rescue incompetent people who should have turned around when their own team members couldn't be bothered.

Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies

#84

Post by varjag »

dchest wrote: post #67
varjag wrote: post #22

Media 2.0 at its best: a bunch of photos lifted without attribution. I recognize at least one to be from a Nat. Geo. story.

I'm pretty sure Media 1.0 also did and does this.

Mainstream printed media is much better with attribution in general.

Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies

#85

Post by Tichy »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #57
JoachimSchipper wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate a bit on why you'd see people wanting to do this? I mean, I understand that mountain climbing affords a nice view, and I understand that it's a feat that you can tell people about, but I can't imagine being willing to take a risk as large as Mt. Everest for those reasons.

Mountaineering in general is not just about the views, wildlife, and other unique memories, it's also about being probably the hardest thing you will ever do, mentally, and physically. One of my hobbies used to be brutal enduro-hiking, and my little trip up Rainier years ago still stands out in my memory as the hardest thing I've ever done. If HN readers really need that entrepreneur spin on this, then I'd suggest th…

I hope the risk of dieing is significantly lower than 1:10 with entrepreneurship.

Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies

#86

Post by ra »

wyclif wrote: post #63
ra wrote: post #37

For a gripping first hand account of the danger and sheer lunacy of today's Mount Everest, I highly recommend "Into Thin Air", by Jon Krakauer http://books.google.com.au/books?id=upIXVwLhGj0C

I second the recommendation, I read that a few years ago and it is an incredible story. Krakauer tells it as one who was gripped by Everest fever, fascinated by the mountain itself but also the colourful personalities drawn to the most serious level of high altitude mountaineering-- but also a man who has seen his friends succumb to the madness of obsession, and ultimately death. It was hard for me to put down; a com…

If you enjoyed that you've probably also read "Touching The Void".

IMHO the ultimate tale of high mountain survival: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=KnRdFe5TXVkC

Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies

#87

Post by mtw »

wooster wrote: post #65
JoachimSchipper wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate a bit on why you'd see people wanting to do this? I mean, I understand that mountain climbing affords a nice view, and I understand that it's a feat that you can tell people about, but I can't imagine being willing to take a risk as large as Mt. Everest for those reasons.

It's just the way some people are wired, and sometimes peoples' wiring changes. They may decide they're not comfortable with the idea of someone else being able to do something they can't. They may have always wanted to climb the highest mountain in the world. They may just want to add it to their summit collection. Sometimes it's just a job. Sometimes it's a trophy, or the crowning achievement of a lifetime. I used…

just imagine our ancestors lived only in savannahs, somewhere between africa and middle east, and a few them foolishly wanted to explore north and eastwards... and they were right. In the same way, a few foolishly played with fire and other sharp objects ... and they were right again, inventing precious tools.

My opinion is that this "wiring" is crucial in what makes us human. It makes us grow and discover our full potential. So you will still have people wanting to dive in apnea for 5+ mn or crazy programmers experimenting stuff with twitter. And that happens even if those people are extremely logical/intelligent people.

Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies

#88

Post by Natsu »

d2viant wrote: post #18
burgerbrain wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to go with mental illness. These people arn't proving themselves, they're abandoning their humanity. It's not something to be celebrated.

That's a pretty harsh characterization of their motivation. I'm guessing when you're standing on the top of that summit you establish a connection with nature that you can't get from simply running a marathon. I'd absolutely celebrate anybody who achieves that. The world needs more people who are willing to step so far out of their comfort zone to achieve seemingly impossible things.

> I'm guessing when you're standing on the top of that summit you establish a connection with nature that you can't get from simply running a marathon.

I don't claim to know anything about their motivation, but the accounts I've read are somewhat different than the romantic image you seem to have. For example, I submit this:

"The only food I'd been able to force down over the preceding three days was a bowl of Ramen soup and a handful of peanut M&M's. Weeks of violent coughing had left me with two separated ribs, making it excruciatingly painful to breathe. Twenty-nine thousand twenty-eight feet up in the troposphere, there was so little oxygen reaching my brain that my mental capacity was that of a slow child. Under the circumstances, I was incapable of feeling much of anything except cold and tired."

Source: http://outsideonline.com/outside/destinations/199609/travel-...

Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies

#89

Post by mark_h »

There's a few videos I've seen recently -- I've also just been trekking in the Everest region and watched and read a lot before going -- that do an amazing job of conveying that summit-fever attitude.

The one that most sticks in my mind is this talk on K2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zkC9IMQmYA It's an hour long, but I highly recommend it.

There was an incredible documentary, which you can probably find online, called "Doctors in the Death Zone" which followed a team of doctors studying the effects of altitude on themselves as they attempted Everest. There's some pretty horrific footage of a team they encounter along the way watching their companion, in obvious distress, drunkenly attempt to reach their position, while they just wait.

Lastly, this talk from TEDMed is by the only doctor on Everest during the 1996 disaster, and it's both a great depiction of the main route, and a frightening reminder of just how dangerous it still is up there despite the number of summits and knowledge of the route these days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSidnKdH5_4

Re: Everest is littered with dead, exposed bodies

#90

Post by araneae »

d2viant wrote: post #18
burgerbrain wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to go with mental illness. These people arn't proving themselves, they're abandoning their humanity. It's not something to be celebrated.

That's a pretty harsh characterization of their motivation. I'm guessing when you're standing on the top of that summit you establish a connection with nature that you can't get from simply running a marathon. I'd absolutely celebrate anybody who achieves that. The world needs more people who are willing to step so far out of their comfort zone to achieve seemingly impossible things.

establish a connection with nature that you can't get from simply running a marathon

That's bullshit talk. What does that even mean?

I think mental illness is much more appropriate, because you can "connect with" nature just as well by climbing smaller mountains. No, these people are attracted to Everest specifically because it's so extraordinarily difficult there's a 2% chance they won't come off it alive, or possibly lose body parts.

There's something wrong with you if you're willing to risk your life that easily.

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