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Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

theguardian.com

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Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#81
post #80
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what are you talking about. What invasion ? Are you talking about the events surrounding this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_... "In February 2014, Russia made several military incursions into Ukrainian territory. After Euromaidan protests and the fall of Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych, Russian soldiers without insignias took control of strategic positions and infrastructure within the Ukrainian territory of Crimea. Russia then annexed Crimea after an unlawful referendum in…

And here is my point exactly. How is this an invasion. And if this intervention is an invasion, why are not "interventions" in Syria for example called invasions also.

The language used in media is often like the newspeak from 1984.

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think that's actually true. Really? >If you're of the mind that you're going to find fault in the messenger to ignore/distract from the message, you're going to find some fault regardless of how well the messenger behaves Yes, but the mud sticks a lot better if it is made of fresh shit. To only regard the people bickering is a mistake. Is the people watching you have to really consider.

> Yes, but the mud sticks a lot better if it is made of fresh shit. Unfortunately, mud sticks well enough even if it isn't real , so I really don't think that's much of a concern. >> All I am pointing out is that the US government would carry greater moral weight when lecturing others if it didn't keep invading places and propping up dictators. Do you think anyone affected or with influence would give greater credenc…

I think the USA had a ton of political goodwill after WWII that it has since then burned for money and now has very little left. The USA does have a lot of money and weapons, so people fear it politically, but it no longer commands much respect.

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, but the mud sticks a lot better if it is made of fresh shit. Unfortunately, mud sticks well enough even if it isn't real , so I really don't think that's much of a concern. >> All I am pointing out is that the US government would carry greater moral weight when lecturing others if it didn't keep invading places and propping up dictators. Do you think anyone affected or with influence would give greater credenc…

I think the USA had a ton of political goodwill after WWII that it has since then burned for money and now has very little left. The USA does have a lot of money and weapons, so people fear it politically, but it no longer commands much respect.

> I think the USA had a ton of political goodwill after WWII that it has since then burned for money and now has very little left.

Maybe so, but it didn't do anything to stop the Berlin Blockade or the invasion of South Korea.

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#84
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesnt really matter what I claim, what we know is sufficient and we have that already quoted here. > Classified documents point to covert US and UK activity. Former US secretary of defense Caspar Weinberger stated that Western submarines operated ‘regularly’ and ‘frequently’ in Swedish waters in order to ‘test’ the Swedish coastal defences, and former British navy minister Sir Keith Speed confirms the existence o…

That means that you are in fact arguing that the government invited Nato to invade Sweden without letting the armed forces know. This is incredibly reckless due to the decentralized nature of the command structure -- why would Nato put their crews in harm's way just to test the Swedish reaction? If exposed, the government officials could actually face charges of treason. Would they accept that personal risk, just to…

>Doing these kind of reckless stunts just to get Sweden to side with Nato was definitely not needed. Sweden was already on Nato's side, and everyone knew that.

This was Sweden under Olof Palme. They made quite a point of staying neutral and were far from joining the Western Block, let alone NATO. You are making it sound as if they were West Germany.

>That just means that he can neither refute nor affirm whatever has been said.

I agree and wouldnt expect anything else from the current Defense Minister. I would be more interested what the then Defense Minister had to say on the issue.

>That means that you are in fact arguing that the government invited Nato to invade Sweden without letting the armed forces know.

If I had to guess, I would say that the Swedish Government was not informed and the US only said this now to not damage the relationship with the current Swedish government. I would read the comment of the Defense minister the same way. But who knows, maybe some parts of the Swedish Government, having a harder pro NATO stance were involved. But that is a conspiracy theory. But who in the Swedish government knew what is rather irrelevant, as the population of Sweden was confronted with a horde of news reports of Soviet submarines probing the Swedish coastal defenses creating the atmosphere of a dooming Soviet invasion.

>I don't understand your interest in this topic nor why it's so important for you to show that it wasn't the Soviet union

You misunderstand my point, the interesting part is not that the Soviets didnt do it, but that the US and UK manufactured a cold war panic in Sweden, likely to get them to join NATO and drop their neutral stance. Given quite alot of fearmongering in the press yet again, thats a rather important thing to remember. If someone from the Atlantic Bridge tells me that that whale is part of some Russian weapons tests I am a bit skeptic about their motivation. Sure we know Russia does conduct those tests, but we also know that some people really like their anti Russian fearmongering to get people running for cover in the arms of NATO under the command of the big brother overseas. A more sober and realistic reporting would generally be great.

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