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Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

nytimes.com

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Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#81

Post by ProfessorLayton »

Tesla's 1.5B reduction of cash on hand was largely due to the 920M convertible bond payment — but that only happened because TSLA didn't perform to the level necessary for conversion (~$360 IIRC). I wonder what changes in terms this'll warrant for future capital raises.

Then they mention that they missed a lot of revenue due to missing half their shipments overseas, and onto Q2 (But also expecting a loss in Q2).

Sales for their higher-margin vehicles seemed to have cratered, explained by seasonality, lower US tax credits going forward, and inventory/demand mismatch.

Panasonic has halted their planned battery plant expansion, which implies a lot about future demand.

I don't want to be a downer, but I'm having a hard time seeing the way forward for Tesla in a manner that isn't very unfavorable for them.

https://ir.tesla.com/static-files/b2218d34-fbee-4f1f-ac95-05...

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#82

Post by bduerst »

mwfunk wrote: post #75
toomuchtodo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a shame people condemn Tesla’s for its troubles when internal combustion gets a ridiculous amount of subsided despite it causing irreparable harm to the planet. Musk plays on Boss Mode (along with others) while everyone enjoys bread and circus and laughs at people trying to accelerate progress with regards to climate change. I hope those quarterly profits, trucks, and SUVs are worth it when climate change hits i…

Generally when people are down on Tesla or Elon Musk, it's because they want them to succeed at displacing internal combustion engines. They're not rooting for internal combustion engines, they're rooting for electric cars and annoyed when the company (or Musk) flounders from self-inflicted damage. At least, that seems like most of the criticism here. No one is going to respond well to an advocate of a technology the…

Exactly. Making Tesla criticism about criticizing alternative energy is a false equivocation.

There are strong arguments that Tesla is being ran very poorly by Musk (solar city acq, VW cash denied, SEC fines, etc.) despite the company being one of the champions for electric vehicles.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#83

Post by mwfunk »

bduerst wrote: post #52
ceedan wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the implication. Apple/iPhone customers were happy a decade ago, and are still happy today.

That's survivor bias. What about the happy blackberry customers?

They became unhappy Blackberry customers, prompting them to become a happy customer of something else. Nobody forced them to stop buying Blackberries.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#84

Post by fooker »

martinald wrote: post #72
neural_thing wrote: post #16

Horrible quarter for them. If they don't resolve their issues with the SEC and raise capital, they will run out of cash in months.

Yeah I think people are underestimating how dire the financials are. I think the cars are pretty cool (though way too much autopilot hype) and it's awesome that EVs have came so far so quickly. If Tesla continues burning cash like this quarter, it will basically be out of money in Q2, yet they are not raising capital which suggests there is some major problem. I think Tesla has had an awful lot of financial near miss…

Billionaires have billionaire friends. It won't be too difficult for Elon Musk to talk to the Google folks and get a few billions in funding, for an appropriate equity.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#85

Post by bduerst »

mwfunk wrote: post #83
bduerst wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's survivor bias. What about the happy blackberry customers?

They became unhappy Blackberry customers, prompting them to become a happy customer of something else. Nobody forced them to stop buying Blackberries.

And there's the point. There's no proof Tesla customers will be happy as Apple or happy as Blackberry customers in 3 years.

It's even worse here because the buying cycle for cars is longer than phones, and Tesla needs more cash right now.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#86

Post by claytoneast »

martinald wrote: post #72
neural_thing wrote: post #16

Horrible quarter for them. If they don't resolve their issues with the SEC and raise capital, they will run out of cash in months.

Yeah I think people are underestimating how dire the financials are. I think the cars are pretty cool (though way too much autopilot hype) and it's awesome that EVs have came so far so quickly. If Tesla continues burning cash like this quarter, it will basically be out of money in Q2, yet they are not raising capital which suggests there is some major problem. I think Tesla has had an awful lot of financial near miss…

If they have 2.2B in the bank, lost 700 mil this quarter, expect to lose significantly less in the next quarter, how are they out of money? Even if they lost 500mil next quarter, they'd still have another 3 quarters of that left. That's not "basically out of money", in my mind.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#87

Post by logicx24 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #37
danappelxx wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The profit margin is a lot thicker in the luxury car market. It's a lot harder for Tesla to compete with economy vehicles produced by Ford/Chevy/Honda/Toyota since they have established production lines and can out-produce and out-price Tesla.

> economy vehicles produced by Ford/Chevy/Honda/Toyota since they have established production lines and can out-produce and out-price Tesla. Who do not pay for the lifetime externalities of each of their vehicles burning petroleum for hundreds of thousands of miles. If you accept climate change is man made, and that combustion vehicles contribute to it, it is insane we don’t make internal combustion vehicles pay for…

In one sense, electric vehicle manufacturers are getting a bonus via the tax credit.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#88

Post by sheeshkebab »

moduspol wrote: post #62
epistasis wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been super convinced by Tesla even after test driving, and was fairly happy with my German made car. But I had to make a change recently for a family-friendlier car and wanted electric now so got a Model 3. Now, I'm fully convinced by Tesla in every way and am never ever going back to dealerships. The car, the service, the people, all of it is on a whole higher plane of satisfaction. It feels like the tran…

> The car, the service, the people, all of it is on a whole higher plane of satisfaction. It feels like the transition from a flip phone to an iPhone in 2008. Same here. This is how I describe it to other people.

I’m using cars to move me and family from point a to b, the less of service and Tesla people I ever see, the better - and if I ever need to get those things, the faster they get the parts and fix it, the happier I am, as most other car owners I’m sure.

In other words, I don’t get the whole Tesla club thing for basically a glorified metal bucket.

Although for some odd reason I do want Tesla to be my next car.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#89

Post by philwelch »

cmer wrote: post #31
DamnYuppie wrote: post #10

I see this trend continuing for Tesla. Aside from Musk's leadership, which is very polarizing, I don't see their cars as being very compelling compared to the upcoming offerings of Audi and Porsche. Tesla isn't really competing against Ford/Chevy/Honda/Toyota. Instead they are competing against BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/Audi. By comparison Teslas seems like a toy compared to those other brands so I will gladly wait and gi…

I think pretty much every single person who owns a Model S/X would tell you that they're never going back to the old German crew. Tesla enjoys the strongest brand loyalty of any car manufacturer. Apple-like loyalty. Tesla doesn't feel like a toy, it feels like the future. They're years ahead of everybody else in terms of tech that is usable today.

The question is whether the existing base of premium-paying fanboys is enough to sustain a company that’s losing nearly a billion dollars per quarter. Think Apple, except if Steve Jobs never returned, and with almost triple the losses.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#90

Post by toomuchtodo »

logicx24 wrote: post #87
toomuchtodo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> economy vehicles produced by Ford/Chevy/Honda/Toyota since they have established production lines and can out-produce and out-price Tesla. Who do not pay for the lifetime externalities of each of their vehicles burning petroleum for hundreds of thousands of miles. If you accept climate change is man made, and that combustion vehicles contribute to it, it is insane we don’t make internal combustion vehicles pay for…

In one sense, electric vehicle manufacturers are getting a bonus via the tax credit.

A woefully inadequate subsidy, which phases out entirely too soon.
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