Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

OpenBSD 6.5

openbsd.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 208 posts

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#81

Post by Spivak »

mises wrote: post #53
Spivak wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only connection that systemd-resolved has to the init system is the name prefix. Seems odd to praise the BSDs for developing everything in a single repo but faulting systemd for the same approach.

I didn't praise them for that. It's more that I don't like the systemd way of making everything systemd. The difference is that the stuff openbsd develops is largely standalone applications, whereas systemd wants to take over the world and replace everything. This makes it very hard to tweak a system, and I would again bring up the logging issue. Systemd-journald stores files in binary format, which is a pain. I was…

> I mounted the disk and tried to read off the log, but couldn't.

I mean yes, you need something to parse the logs and turn them into human readable text, but the logs are perfectly readable.

journalctl --file /mnt/var/log/journal/`A lot, dare I say most, of the parts of systemd actually are optional or do nothing until you use them like systemd-machined.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#82

Post by riffraff »

busterarm wrote: post #74
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but for surfing, some hobby programming and as a travel OS OpenBSD definitely won me over. Mac OS X has won me (and many others) over when it comes to these topics. I'm curious why BSD would be your choice. It sounds painful?

Mac OS X only works for this due to herculean community efforts. The base system is fundamentally unusable for this purpose without Homebrew, Macports (oh hey, BSD ports!), or pkgsrc (oh hey, BSD ports again!). The base packages get upgraded on a timescale approaching lolnever. They should be ashamed of themselves for shipping machines with Bash 3 still and that's just the tip of the iceberg. OpenBSD is so simple for…

AFAIR, the reason for bash3 is that Apple refuses to use more recent packages due to GPLv3.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#83

Post by justin66 »

arendtio wrote: post #62
crehn wrote: post #20

I know it's often mentioned, but I love the simplicity of OpenBSD. Thank you all for the great work.

Well, simplicity is one thing, but I was shocked to learn that it doesn't even come with the complete POSIX toolbox (e.g. out of the box awk is missing). And finding out that `ftp` also handles http and https was a bit weird too. To some extent, I like that simplicity too (especially security wise) but I wonder if they are taking it too far.

You're holding it wrong.

https://man.openbsd.org/awk

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#84

Post by intertextuality »

busterarm wrote: post #74
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but for surfing, some hobby programming and as a travel OS OpenBSD definitely won me over. Mac OS X has won me (and many others) over when it comes to these topics. I'm curious why BSD would be your choice. It sounds painful?

Mac OS X only works for this due to herculean community efforts. The base system is fundamentally unusable for this purpose without Homebrew, Macports (oh hey, BSD ports!), or pkgsrc (oh hey, BSD ports again!). The base packages get upgraded on a timescale approaching lolnever. They should be ashamed of themselves for shipping machines with Bash 3 still and that's just the tip of the iceberg. OpenBSD is so simple for…

> Mac OS X only works for this due to herculean community efforts.

For programming, yes, although I don't know if brew would be called "herculean". For battery life and ease of use, no.

I've setup BSD on linux on personally modded thinkpads (putting in faster cpus, new wifi cards, etc), and you have got to be joking when you say it's simpler or faster than turning on a new mac and installing brew. It's infinitely more customizable for sure, but it's not simpler or easier. Especially when it comes to tuning battery life.

And for highly used programs like adobe photoshop, illustrator/affinity design, premiere, etc, forget it. Even Sketch isn't available on linux.

And this doesn't account for physical clunkiness either. My t430 was so bulky. The x220 was nice but the display wasn't that good, nor the cpu.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#85

Post by tptacek »

kbenson wrote: post #45
asveikau wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenBSD has done a few of these daemons over the years, where they reject existing popular implementations to do their own with their own priorties. I started typing a list but really there are too many, big and small. They tend to have the OpenBSD minimalist, security focused, "no bullshit" approach. It's not very much like systemd.

In a way, OpenBSD isn't really written in C. It's written in a special subset of C that uses some different, more secure core functions and any where any trade-off for performance instead of security is ruthlessly weeded out when reviewed by the people involved. I'm of the opinion that using C and C++ for future major work where there's not good reasons forcing you to is more trouble than it's worth, but I wouldn't m…

While I'm generally sold on the OpenBSD strategy of replacing mainstream daemons with stripped down secure versions, I don't think it is at all reasonable to suggest that OpenBSD's library idioms mean it's implemented in something other than C (nor would it be reasonable to say that about Dan Bernstein's software, which goes even further in this direction). It's still C, and it still has memory corruption vulnerabilities.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#86

Post by brynet »

ernst_klim wrote: post #71
brynet wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because perl is part of the base system, and not a package, harmless files are typically not removed by the OpenBSD Installer. You don't have to remove those files, the upgrade guide simply indicates they're no longer required.

Sure, but manual upgrades with `tar'ring userspace, copying kernel and removing files seems abysmally error-prone to me.

You're reading the manual upgrade guide, for remote systems where you would otherwise cannot boot the ramdisk kernel to upgrade, which handles all of that for you.

If you have console access to the machine, serial or glass. Things are far easier.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#87

Post by wahern »

justinsaccount wrote: post #11

> First release of unwind(8), a validating, recursive nameserver for 127.0.0.1. It is particularly suitable for laptops moving between networks. When systemd-resolvd was first released it was the biggest mistake ever to write a new recursive resolver instead of using unbound or dnsmasq. Also since DNS ".. wasn't broken, so it did not need fixing". I wonder if unwind will be received with the same hostility.

unwind uses libunbound, so it's basically just a different front-end. See https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/src/sbin/unwind/

OpenBSD also still includes Unbound (/usr/sbin/unbound) as the standard local recursive resolver, and NSD (/usr/sbin/nsd) as the standard authoritative server.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#88

Post by pimeys »

pimeys wrote: post #66
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but for surfing, some hobby programming and as a travel OS OpenBSD definitely won me over. Mac OS X has won me (and many others) over when it comes to these topics. I'm curious why BSD would be your choice. It sounds painful?

I like simplicity. I use i3, Firefox with enough privacy extensions, Emacs and terminal. And I love to be able to have a great keyboard, where sadly the ThinkPads are the only choice nowadays. Using Mac OS X or Windows will give me a headache. I just don't like their user interface. And I've used both of them a lot; I had my G4 iMac with 10.0.0 back in the days, and kind of liked 10.3.0 until Linux won me over again.

(P.S. why every OS thread in HN always turns into discussion about Apple?)

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#89

Post by asark »

bigato wrote: post #76
brynet wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because perl is part of the base system, and not a package, harmless files are typically not removed by the OpenBSD Installer. You don't have to remove those files, the upgrade guide simply indicates they're no longer required.

> harmless files are typically not removed by the OpenBSD Installer I also don't understand the reasoning behind this.

On the one hand, cruft hanging around sucks. On the other hand, leaving stuff alone if you can is safer.

Meanwhile dist-upgrade on my vanilla, boring Ubuntu MATE box rendered it unbootable just yesterday.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#90

Post by arendtio »

tedunangst wrote: post #65
arendtio wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, simplicity is one thing, but I was shocked to learn that it doesn't even come with the complete POSIX toolbox (e.g. out of the box awk is missing). And finding out that `ftp` also handles http and https was a bit weird too. To some extent, I like that simplicity too (especially security wise) but I wonder if they are taking it too far.

How did you manage to get an OpenBSD install that didn't include awk?

I downloaded install64.iso started it and entered the shell. Next, I entered 'awk' and got the response:

sh: awk: not found

Maybe their live cd doesn't include the whole 'base' set?

Post reply on HN