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A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

physicstoday.scitation.org

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Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#81

Post by occamschainsaw »

I don't agree with this article. I did my undergrad with a Physics & CS double major. It was painful, 9 semesters of maximum allowed courseload. While people seemed to be impressed, I always felt like an imposter, knowing less CS than the CS students and less physics than the physics students. Couldn't maintain a great GPA either. Applied to 8 PhD programs, got rejected by all of them. Most of the CS companies also rejected me (a recruiter said I had too many degrees (???)). I did end up working at a National Lab, which was an amazing experience.

Side note: The American Physical Society(APS) publishes undergrad physics employment data[0] that my peers and I used to look at to feel good about our non-grad school prospects after BS. After my degree I realized it is biased at best, misleading at worst.

Currently I am doing an interdisciplinary (read flexible) masters program in computational science. It allows me to take both CS and physics grad classes and do research in physics labs too. Now I plan on pursuing research in machine learning applied to super big data hairy physics problems. I am gonna apply to PhD programs again (fields are fuzzy: physics, CS, ML, data science).

Would I do it again? Hell yeah. Started out as physics and then CS seemed interesting. Both gave me valuable skills: Good understanding of data structures, HPC, prototyping is helpful with physics problems, and I am not afraid of math in grad ML classes because of physics.

Would I recommend it to others? Not really unless you are extremely passionate about both (took me about 2 years to feel that) or are a genius and confident in your abilities (I am not). I am still anxious about the future, and where will I fit. If you have a passing interest in physics, do CS with a physics minor to satisfy that itch or pursue an interdisciplinary program[1] so you are not stranded employment wise. Set on being a physicist? Take some CS classes (data structures, simulation, numerical analysis, HPC, algorithms etc.)

People of HN, if you have a similar background/work in a similar field, I would love to pick your brain about your path and research/career options.

[0] https://www.aps.org/careers/statistics/index.cfm [1] https://www.siam.org/Students-Education/Resources/For-Underg...

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#82

Post by romwell »

stevenwoo wrote: post #75

If one is thinking about trying to become H1-B, one should be extremely wary: https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/04/16/h-1b-more-advanced-de... obviously this could change from Presidential administration to administration but they no longer permit those with physics/E.E./math advanced degrees to have H1-B for software work.

What awful news!

Unbelievably stupid (for reasons hopefully clear to everyone here). Extremely infuriating that someone would think that the people with these skills aren't extremely valuable for suitable software jobs (...contrary to what the market says).

Especially so in Silicon Valley, where so many software engineering jobs are more on the side of scientific computing, and actually require advanced science degrees.

E.g.: my previous employer was an EDA firm; guess what: writing software for litho mask optimization requires a solid knowledge of EM physics, chemistry and math quite beyond what a typical MS in Comp. Sci. might give. (Everyone on my team had a PhD, none a CompSci).

Then there's the whole academic pyramid aspect: there are way more PhD students than academic jobs, and cutting off access to jobs for people getting PhD's in the US is a good way to slowly kill science (which is an international endeavor).

Out of all the stupid anti-immigration initiatives, this one is the most outrageous.

Signed, a mathematics PhD working in software engineering.

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#83

Post by batbomb »

This is probably bad advice. Better advice would be to just find a good experiment at a reputable school and latch on.

Projects in experimental physics at a good state school are typically a great place for access to a machine shop, computing resources, and the possibility for travel, in addition to the departments typically having a lower student to professor ratio compared to the engineering schools.

You're also more likely to work for people with a variety of skills.

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#84

Post by singingfish »

sidlls wrote: post #65
stdbrouw wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As someone who obtained their Master's in Physics, I have to agree with the article. The breadth and depth of my scientific training has made me a much more capable data scientist (and engineer) than most of my peers who went the CS path. Not knocking on you specifically, but I've seen this kind of overconfidence before in physicists, mechanical engineers, mathematicians etc.: "programming / statistics / data scien…

It isn't overconfidence. The academic material these individuals study is directly and specifically related to the work of a data scientist. Statistical analysis is built in to any reasonably good physics curriculum starting with undergrad lab courses and proceeding through statistical mechanics, quantum physics and beyond.

I tend to agree. If I have a bunch of applicants for a programming job, given the choice between a similarly capable computer science graduate, or a natural sciences graduate (e.g. physics, chem, bio, oddly psychology - except I'm biased I have qualifications in the last two) then I'm likely to pick the non CS qualification applicant because of the breadth of experience, and the implicit recognition that the computer isn't the most important part of the job. Having said that I've worked with a few excellent CS grads, and for some tasks, good ones are really valuable.

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#85

Post by nikofeyn »

radres wrote: post #57

Grad school is one of the biggest modern scams that convinces highly skilled people to work for peanuts for years on end.

it really is messed up. in addition, it creates a bunch of weird spots in the job search space. for example, i have come across many jobs that i am more than qualified for, but they ended up being "post-doctoral fellowships". so they are jobs that i can't get because i don't have a ph.d. but even if i could get them, i would take around a 50% pay cut. it doesn't make any sense whatsoever! the only explanation is the post-doc thing being basically a version of slavery for skilled and educated people.

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#86

Post by Balgair »

oneepic wrote: post #41

I've also heard the opposite, that it leads to absolutely nothing and you are kind of treated like a PhD dropout, at least in the US. Just be careful, I guess, and get plenty of advice from real people who took that path (successfully or not). Oh, and a bachelor's in engineering physics seems to lead to nothing as well. Have had quite a few friends go to career fairs and every company rep lost interest as soon as the…

I'll echo this. In the US, having just a MS in Physics means that you failed your quals. Though it may not be true, this is the 'popular' perception.

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#87

Post by uptownfunk »

Came to check this to confirm my experience. I would hire an ex PhD physicist as a data scientist only if they actually talk data science in an interview. Even better if they have good work experience in the same field.

One thing that really irks me is this notion that PhDs in physics are so smart just hire them and they can figure it out. Maybe that’s the case, but is it something I’m willing to take a bet on? probably not at least until you’ve learnt the field and ideally if you have experience.

That said my best friend in high school was one of the smartest people I know, went on to do a PhD in physics and then took two years to find a job. I know the struggle these guys go though because I spent a lot of time trying to help the guy out. Thankfully he landed on his feet, but the sad truth is a lot of these guys either just really love the field or think they’re going to be the next Feynman, until they realize how competitive the physics world is for only a few tenured spots.

The good news is if you’ve still got what it takes after a PhD or postdoc and you have the time or determination you’ve definitely already proved you have the horsepower, the work is then just converting that into something the real world appreciates.

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#88

Post by mettamage »

occamschainsaw wrote: post #81

I don't agree with this article. I did my undergrad with a Physics & CS double major. It was painful, 9 semesters of maximum allowed courseload. While people seemed to be impressed, I always felt like an imposter, knowing less CS than the CS students and less physics than the physics students. Couldn't maintain a great GPA either. Applied to 8 PhD programs, got rejected by all of them. Most of the CS companies also r…

I didn't read the artidcle yet, but I experience the same issues.

Computer science + business minor as a bachelor

Psychology (honours) as 2nd bachelor

Game studies master

Computer science research master

My fields of interest: computer science, psychology and business.

For the rest, your comment is almost identical, to some extent even the math parth (as psych. is quite statistics heavy compared to CS).

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#89

Post by nikofeyn »

no_one_ever wrote: post #6

Please please please do not pursue a PhD or MSc in Physics on the sole expectation it will open a door to a career that you believe would otherwise be closed. You will not enjoy it.

however, there are certain jobs that a ph.d. will basically catapult you into a senior position as soon as you are hired, and it will do so at the expense of people with just a bachelor's or master's degree. i have seen people titled "senior research scientist" and put into management roles despite having just graduated in the same year. in other cases, having a ph.d. will give you large amounts of responsibility (good for career growth) right off the bat, despite having much, much less experience than already hired colleagues with only master's degrees. why is that? well, some people, cultures, companies, labs, etc. still hold the ph.d. quite high in their mind and heart, despite what they may say. these are the places that think a ph.d. gives someone the ability to manage not only technical aspects (that somewhat makes sense) but also people, projects, system design, etc. (that often doesn't make sense).

so basically, in the end, there is no golden rule.

Re: A physics master’s degree opens doors to myriad careers

#90

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

klrr wrote: post #52
oneepic wrote: post #41

I've also heard the opposite, that it leads to absolutely nothing and you are kind of treated like a PhD dropout, at least in the US. Just be careful, I guess, and get plenty of advice from real people who took that path (successfully or not). Oh, and a bachelor's in engineering physics seems to lead to nothing as well. Have had quite a few friends go to career fairs and every company rep lost interest as soon as the…

Interesting, in Scandinavia Engineering Physics is quite prestigious and many graduates end up as SWEs. In fact many researchers across Sweden hold Engineering Physics degrees in CS and other disciplines outside physics.

In Sweden I definitely observed this. I worked with quite a few SWE's who went to a technical university (LTH, Uppsala as primary examples) and held engineering physics degrees. From talking and working with people, though, I think it's because it's quite easy in Swedish technical university curricula to take SWE courses that count towards your degree. There is also quite much more of an applied engineering approach vs. theoretical than you would expect which might also play a role in this.
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