Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

thedrive.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 189 posts

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#81

Post by giarc »

crazysim wrote: post #63
dv_dt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next paragraph is interesting too: "Its range will be limited by 10%, and several features will be disabled via software (including our onboard music streaming service, navigation with live traffic visualization, and heated seats). Similar to other software-limited vehicles produced in the past, Standard customers will have the option to upgrade to a Standard Plus at any time. Similarly, anyone who has already bo…

Software disabled heated seats?

When the "switch" is on a display, software can do anything.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#82

Post by gibybo »

FireBeyond wrote: post #25
henryfjordan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't promise autonomous cars in 3 years, he promised they won't be ready for at least 3 years. Hence the leasing scheme

Other than the "The car will be able to self-drive, coast to coast, this year" back in Jan/Feb, you mean?

>back in Jan/Feb

May 2017

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/866482406160609280

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#83

Post by linuxftw »

richardknop wrote: post #29
empath75 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The couldn’t be as they haven’t produced a single one.

Which is probably why they haven't built any. They did the math and knew they can't make profit on it so they "announced" 35k model is available but tried to upsell all people who ordered it to more expensive models, and now they quietly cancelled the 35k model without delivering a single one. So they can say "hey we released 35k Model 3 as promised" to save face. But I don't think they can make profit from it so the…

I remember reading alleged whistler blower reports about damaged cells going into packs. Perhaps this is the most cost-effective way to utilize the stuff they built in tents.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#84

Post by leesec »

gibybo wrote: post #71
twoodfin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone want to lay odds on these cars ending up in a “certified pre-owned” program instead? This seems like a scheme to both boost future new car sales and effectively “sell” the same car twice.

If I could bet $100 to win $1 that they don't end up in a self-driving fleet at the end of the lease, I would.

You can. I'll happily take this up to 1k.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#85

Post by Shivetya »

legitster wrote: post #26

I get the strong impression that even as a loss leader, the $35,000 figure was based on some back of envelope calculations. We know that they have had to expand or increase the cost in several ways since they started production. I know they really want to make the Model T of electric cars, but it took about a decade of development for Ford to deliver one under $500. And I don't think Tesla has quite mastered the scie…

Maybe unrealistic in the end but I think they realized it was cheaper to not change up the assembly line too much and instead just build them all with the same interior options. Removing extra speakers is easy, not installing all the ambient lighting is simple, swapping out a leather interior with cloth isn't as that not only is a large item it means you need to secure supplies for an option that may not have sufficient uptake to get a good discount.

plus the added bonus is that you can yourself choose to buy features you skipped out on earlier. It also would be a boon for resale as well. Letting the buyer decide to add options you passed on.

35k base model should probably been adjusted for inflation but Musk's ego boxed Tesla. Let alone that its one thousand or twelve hundred in delivery plus taxes on top of that 35k price so there never really is a 35k car. In the end I look at it this way, if your budget is so inflexible that less than a five percent change in price is make or break you should not be buying it in the first place.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#86

Post by philwelch »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #54
FireBeyond wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than the "The car will be able to self-drive, coast to coast, this year" back in Jan/Feb, you mean?

It’s not unreasonable to heavily critique the fact that Tesla deadlines are blown repeatedly, and yet who among us has gone from 0 to 300k+ vehicles manufacturer and sold per year in 12 years and delivered an EV into an elliptical orbit with a privately developed heavy lift vehicle? Don’t say something is impossible while someone else is delivering, slowly and missed deadlines or not. @sbov (deleted reply while I was…

Musk doesn’t run SpaceX. Gwynne Shotwell does.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#87

Post by toomuchtodo »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #79
toomuchtodo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not unreasonable to heavily critique the fact that Tesla deadlines are blown repeatedly, and yet who among us has gone from 0 to 300k+ vehicles manufacturer and sold per year in 12 years and delivered an EV into an elliptical orbit with a privately developed heavy lift vehicle? Don’t say something is impossible while someone else is delivering, slowly and missed deadlines or not. @sbov (deleted reply while I was…

Aren't those solved problems though? Like, you're talking manufacturing and scaling up production, and there are other examples of heavy lift vehicles. While they are absolutely great accomplishments, it's tweaks on previous formulas. There are no fully autonomous cars, he'd have to break entirely new ground for that.

> Aren't those solved problems though? Like, you're talking manufacturing and scaling up production, and there are other examples of heavy lift vehicles. While they are absolutely great accomplishments, it's tweaks on previous formulas.

Not at all. I'm unaware of any other heavy lift vehicles developed by a non-government entity that fly for $90 million (versus Delta Heavy's $350 million cost) and are completely reusable besides the second stage and the fairings. I'm unaware of any auto company created in the last century in the US, besides Tesla (and the ghost of GM shepherded through bankruptcy by the Obama administration), that is still in business [1].

So to answer your question, these are "solved" in the same way if you proposed to yourself, "Hey, I can build an iPhone because Apple can build and iPhone". Could you? Absolutely. Are you discounting the enormous amount of work and capital necessary to pull it off? Absolutely.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_automobile_man... (List of defunct automobile manufacturers of the United States)

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#88

Post by Gpetrium »

pdq wrote: post #12

Per the new lease: "Please note, customers who choose leasing over owning will not have the option to purchase their car at the end of the lease, because with full autonomy coming in the future via an over-the-air software update, we plan to use those vehicles in the Tesla ride-hailing network." Elon once again promising fully autonomous vehicles in 3 years. Also, isn't this a rental? A lease normally has a residual,…

This quote serves three purposes: (1) It emphasizes the value in software, not the car's 'carcass'; (2) It hypes a future marketplace and business model for Tesla's stock purchasers; (3) It tells the customer that they are better off buying the good instead of renting.

I agree that it seems to be a rental. If the business expects to continue to make updates to the car's software assuming that it will be determining factors for its value, it will be difficult to determine the residual value at the end.

Does that mean that leases will cease to exist? That we will find a way to price the software updates? or that older cars will stop being updated the same way cellphones & OS systems are?

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#89

Post by [deleted] »

njarboe wrote: post #76
_red wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet speak to any experienced embedded developer who actually thinks "full autonomy" is remotely possible in the near/mid term. The suggestions that it is possible, seems to come mainly from junior developers and snake-oil salesman. We don't even have "full autonomous" trains, planes, or trucks yet.

Would an auto-car that crashed at a rate 1/10th of humans be a successful "full autonomous" vehicle? You could save 30000 lives a year in the US by deploying such vehicles and probably more due to knock-on effects. But that would be about 10 auto-car deaths/per day. No way that works with the current media. Unfortunately, it seems many people are not going to accept auto-cars with less than airplane like safety level…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#90

Post by Domenic_S »

metalliqaz wrote: post #42
mixmastamyk wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would love one with computers minimized and privacy as a first-class concern, just like Adama did in the newer Battlestar Galactica, haha. (I do like the feature where the car slows/stops when it encounters an obstacle directly ahead. As far as I know it shouldn't require machine-learning/privacy invasion, but it is harder and harder to get one without the other.)

Plug-in mod for Toyota Prius?

Why the mod? It exists from the factory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Plug-in_Hybrid
Post reply on HN