Learn more programming languages, even if you won't use them • Hacker News Board

Re: Learn more programming languages, even if you won't use them

#81

Post by 300bps » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 3:11 PM UTC

cnasc wrote: post #3

In case anyone isn't familiar with them, these two books[1][2] from the Pragmatic Programmer are great for doing just this. They offer a guided intro to 7 different languages each, and they're a whole lot of fun. [1] https://pragprog.com/book/btlang/seven-languages-in-seven-we... [2] https://pragprog.com/book/7lang/seven-more-languages-in-seve...

I learned programming from books like The Waite Group's Turbo-C Bible around 1989. In trying to teach my oldest son programming through using modern books, it seemed much more difficult. IDEs and languages change so rapidly that books (and even online tutorials) are dated quickly. Menu options change, links stop working, etc.

It made my son more frustrated when he was first starting.

Re: Learn more programming languages, even if you won't use them

#82

Post by mcguire » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 3:15 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #73

wincy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only got my current job because I happened to be reading a book on C#, which is strange because we barely code in C#. I spent several years programming in Elixir which got blank stares from recruiters. But saying I know Elixir and C# actually got me a pretty good gig! In an ideal world, knowing data structures and algorithms would get job interviews, but without being able to at least speak to some specifics of the…

Why would knowing “algorithms and data structures” be ideal? In the real world, most jobs aren’t about knowing either. They are about translating business requirements into code.

...and everyone knows code has nothing to do with algorithms and data structures.

Re: Learn more programming languages, even if you won't use them

#83

Post by mcguire » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 3:17 PM UTC

dcbadacd wrote: post #55

CuriouslyC wrote: post #39

Frankly I've never understood the desire to be a polyglot. The time spent learning new syntax and a new standard library could have been spent learning libraries, algorithms, data structures, etc, so I don't think it's the most productive way to improve yourself as a programmer. I'm more interested in learning a new language because it lets me do something I couldn't do before.

In my opinion it's a good thing to have a point of comparison to other languages when writing code, there might also be concepts prevalent in other languages that your primary language doesn't commonly use but would be useful. It's really similar to learning multiple spoken/written human languages.

If you knew Ocaml, when Java generics rolled around, they were no big deal. If you had a handle on Haskell, Rust's traits are familiar.

Re: Learn more programming languages, even if you won't use them

#84

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 3:21 PM UTC

mcguire wrote: post #82

scarface74 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would knowing “algorithms and data structures” be ideal? In the real world, most jobs aren’t about knowing either. They are about translating business requirements into code.

...and everyone knows code has nothing to do with algorithms and data structures.

Well, if you’re doing yet another software as a service CRUD app or another bespoke app that will never be seen outside of a company - like most developers - knowing:

Given a binary tree, return the level order traversal of its nodes' values. (ie, from left to right, level by level).

Isn’t that useful or how to invert a binary tree.

I would much rather you show some competence in the language we are using. Knowing leetCode isn’t going to help if we need an iOS app....

Re: Learn more programming languages, even if you won't use them

#85

Post by acroback » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 3:25 PM UTC

What a terrible advice.

Does author has trouble with discipline?

You don't get anything by learning more and more programming languages. Programming languages are tools, be expert at 2 or 3 languages and that should be enough. Learn anything more to solve a specific problem.

You understand the crux of a language by being expert at it not by "me too" novice at it.

Re: Learn more programming languages, even if you won't use them

#86

Post by digaozao » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 3:25 PM UTC

gnclmorais wrote: post #66

dajohnson89 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm this way with foreign languages: Spanish and french. I know french very well, and learning/speaking Spanish is significantly harder because I'm always using french words by mistake. sure it'll get better with practice, but interlingual dyslexia is real.

Interesting, I feel like I have the opposite issue. Coming from Portuguese, learning Spanish was a breeze and I can usually surprise French speaking people with “hard” words in my basic French sentences — just because I reached out to a Portuguese word and “frenchyfied” it.

I think this dyslexia happens more with non native languages.

Like when I was trying to speak german, after just some time in France. My native language is Portuguese

Re: Learn more programming languages, even if you won't use them

#87

Post by viburnum » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 3:27 PM UTC

I just make everything like Smalltalk anyway so what’s the point.

Re: Learn more programming languages, even if you won't use them

#88

Post by billfruit » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 3:29 PM UTC

gilbetron wrote: post #30

At this point I have almost 20 languages that I've used for at least two years, which is what I consider an decent bar for "knowing" a language. The problem I now have is that I don't know if I'll ever be able to master any language anymore. Mmmmaybe C, since I've used that fairly consistently, albeit on-and-off for 25 years. But whenever I get to an "if" or "for" or function declaration, I often have to look at an e…

Yes, esp some languages are deceptively similar: if you know C, then PERL, Javascript, and PHP looks very similar, but it is hard to remember the differences.

Re: Learn more programming languages, even if you won't use them

#89

Post by mncharity » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 3:32 PM UTC

gilbetron wrote: post #30

At this point I have almost 20 languages that I've used for at least two years, which is what I consider an decent bar for "knowing" a language. The problem I now have is that I don't know if I'll ever be able to master any language anymore. Mmmmaybe C, since I've used that fairly consistently, albeit on-and-off for 25 years. But whenever I get to an "if" or "for" or function declaration, I often have to look at an e…

> Mmmmaybe C

Lol - I remember years ago bouncing through javascript, python, lisp, prolog and others, all using ";" differently; then coming back around to C, and despite once knowing the spec by heart and having written C parsers, writing some one-line test programs... because I just could not believe that semicolon was a statement terminator - it looked so "this just isn't right". :)

> [syntax]

But when swapping languages, I had more trouble with cognitive interference on higher-level constructs. Syntax can go in cheat sheets[1], and idioms gathered in example files. Badly organized and incomplete documentation (once common before the programming community exploded in size) can be overlaid with tables of contents and notes. Because remembering how to find things in each languages' documentation was for me a major pain. But for designing say large apis, you have to remember things like some type-system path does look pretty... but only until you hit some language-misfeature monster that lives on it. And also not shy from some approach because of a misremembered or misattributed gotcha from another language. Though maybe that's easier now with so much discussion of best practices, and so much code available to read.

> cheeseburger and lasagna [...] they all get your belly full.

Or alternately, that they're all shambling toxic wretchedness, but you choose the one which seems likely to poison the customer the least, cooking it as well as circumstances permit. Cockroach popcorn and fried millipedes can be tasty. And even with swill milk... gypsum plaster is non-toxic... it's the other adulterants, little nutrition, and absence of sanitation that burn you. I do love programming, but I so look forward to less crippling languages.

[1] http://rigaux.org/language-study/syntax-across-languages.htm...

Re: Learn more programming languages, even if you won't use them

#90

Post by holoduke » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 3:33 PM UTC

gilbetron wrote: post #30

At this point I have almost 20 languages that I've used for at least two years, which is what I consider an decent bar for "knowing" a language. The problem I now have is that I don't know if I'll ever be able to master any language anymore. Mmmmaybe C, since I've used that fairly consistently, albeit on-and-off for 25 years. But whenever I get to an "if" or "for" or function declaration, I often have to look at an e…

At the end of the day it's more about applying the right patterns. A language is just a hammer. But you won't make good furniture without design skills. So it does not matter that you need to Google up things and forget things.