It always feels like Tesla owns the cars anyway, having that data connection to do whatever they feel like doing. Leasing makes it legit.
Model 3 Lease Available
81–90 of 109 posts
Re: Model 3 Lease Available
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no way any of these model 3s end up in an autonomous ride share. Especially with only cameras and no LIDAR. I guess it does give them cover for not offering the option to buy at the end of the lease. Wouldn’t be surprised if they reverse this in 2-3 years.
Sometimes I wonder if the much-ballyhooed short-sellers actually work in the Tesla marketing department :-) I know that companies get a lot of flak for saying hedged things. But Tesla could really benefit from some hedging. This pronouncement in absolute terms that there will be no lease-end buyout is ridiculous. It depends entirely on future factors unknown today (to us or Tesla), whether they will give customers th…
> It depends entirely on future factors unknown today (to us or Tesla)
How can you be so sure?
Re: Model 3 Lease Available
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no way any of these model 3s end up in an autonomous ride share. Especially with only cameras and no LIDAR. I guess it does give them cover for not offering the option to buy at the end of the lease. Wouldn’t be surprised if they reverse this in 2-3 years.
I don’t understand why they refuse to at least add forward-facing LIDAR. Lane paint sabotage, low-contrast lighting situations and construction are just a few risks that make me nervous to trust autopilot at highway speeds. I say this as someone that is bullish on autonomous driving and in awe of Tesla in general.
Lidar fixes lane paint sabotage?
Re: Model 3 Lease Available
#84So to summarize: - Tesla launches 35k Standard model along with 37,5k Standard Plus Model - Tesla raises price of Standard Plus Model to 39,5k - Tesla discontinues Standard Model So Tesla just increased the base price of the Model 3 from 35k to 39.5k, but tried to do some marketing tricks to make you feel like it's a great deal.
The Standard isn't discontinued, it's just rejiggered to be a software-limited version of Standard Plus (because logistical simplicity saves more than the reduced bill of materials) and pulled from the online catalog so that you have to go to a showroom (remember when they were going to dump those?) or call on the phone to order one.
That's what they are saying, but we all know the option will disappear quietly in a few weeks, just like all the low cost Model S options.
Re: Model 3 Lease Available
#85I think the title of this submission should be changed to 'Tesla removes 35k Model 3 option' or similar. Their cheapest option is now a bit under 40k USD because they're including autopilot as standard.
Out of all of the people I know who own tesla, I have yet to meet anyone who bought one without autopilot. I don't understand why would you decide to purchase tesla over other electric cars if it was not for autopilot. If you want electric without autopilot - there are better options than tesla, so maybe the reason why they removed it was because a vast majority of people were purchasing the autopilot model, and offe…
I have a friend who bought a Model X without autopilot, I was stunned because it is probably the single most important feature of my Model S. In fact I think that features of Teslas like traffic aware cruise control, autosteer, radar controlled emergency braking, could be ported to pretty much any modern drive by wire automatic and would be very beneficial. But Mercedes who have had much of the necessary hardware for decades make it a premium option on cars that are already very expensive so it hasn't happened and VW has emergency braking on some models but I think it is still optional.
Re: Model 3 Lease Available
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Shorts, who by definition are not dispassionate and have a direct interest in the ability to project and manipulate market expectations. And when the emerging reality doesn't match their short position are (evidently) willing to move down the road to making the conditions they predicted come true.
Everything you said could be used to describe longs as well, with incentives just aligned in the opposite direction.
Longs tend to own things. Shorts tend to destroy value to acquire it cheap. they don't currently hold it, they're seeking profit by securing it under value. Longs seek to profit from its existence and success.
I don't see these as fully symmetric. I see them as oppositional, and indeed a long will do the things which improve their position. But since thats constructive not destructive, there appears to me to be a useful distinction.
What did I get wrong here?
Re: Model 3 Lease Available
#87Contrary to the standard short story, there must still be significant demand for the 3 if Tesla is raising prices rather than lowering them. Yes, the $35k model 3 is still technically available, but obviously they don't want to sell them. If there was little demand, they would rather sell a $35k 3 at no profit than idle their factory.
I feel like this is a bit of a strawman. If there's a "standard" short story, it's that the demand for high end Model 3s is too low, and the company can't profitably be run on the margins of SR/SR+ or even MR alone.
I'm not sure I believe it (Sandy Munro for instance seems pretty optimistic that a competent manufacturer could profitably make the $35k M3), but misrepresenting the argument does nobody any favors.
Re: Model 3 Lease Available
#88Contrary to the standard short story, there must still be significant demand for the 3 if Tesla is raising prices rather than lowering them. Yes, the $35k model 3 is still technically available, but obviously they don't want to sell them. If there was little demand, they would rather sell a $35k 3 at no profit than idle their factory.
I feel like this is a bit of a strawman. If there's a "standard" short story, it's that the demand for high end Model 3s is too low, and the company can't profitably be run on the margins of SR/SR+ or even MR alone. I'm not sure I believe it (Sandy Munro for instance seems pretty optimistic that a competent manufacturer could profitably make the $35k M3), but misrepresenting the argument does nobody any favors.
> (Sandy Munro for instance seems pretty optimistic that a competent manufacturer could profitably make the $35k M3)
Its pretty clear what Sandy Munro is doing however. He's trying to sell his consulting services to Tesla. His whole shtick is pointing out issues with their design and trying to demonstrate that he knows how to save them lots of money.
It doesn't seem like Elon is biting however. Munro's video was about unnecessary welds, and how various shapes could have been made more cheaply. Only IF Tesla implements those changes (and probably the other changes Munro was thinking about) could they save money.
Not that I don't trust the guy, but you gotta keep in mind what pays Munro's bills. He's selling his expertise.
Re: Model 3 Lease Available
#89The HN profile of the user who posted this is "currently working at Tesla" Edit: removed my comment about insider information per the link provided in replies.
it's literally at the top of https://www.tesla.com/blog maybe it wasn't when you wrote your comment
No, it wasn't. Thanks for mentioning; I updated my comment.
Re: Model 3 Lease Available
#90Uh, wait. They're taking the Model 3 Standard off the menu....so.....that means the $35k version just got stopped? Sigh. It's a bit sad for me because I have been a bigger fanatic for this company than almost anyone, for maybe 9 years now, and my passion is fading. I recognize how hard the thing they're doing is, and how they're doing everything they can...but the repeated dishonesty is just very off-putting to me. I…
The pedantic view is that Tesla did offer the $35k M3 for awhile and while they haven't delivered any yet they will. (It looks like the ones they will deliver will have the upgraded interior and a software locked battery).
Further more, if you know that magic words, you can still order one though it won't show upon their web site. So according to the letter of the law they will have offered, sold and delivered some M3's for $35k. They never undertook to offer this product/price combo indefinitely.
Though, as a prospective buyer it did seem pretty obvious that the M3 extended range version was a better deal. And apparently so did buyers in the ratio of 6:1.
I wouldn't be surprised if this convulsion in strategy is the result of Congress recently saying they would try to reinstate the subsidy for GM and Tesla electric vehicles. This might sound good, and would be good in the medium term, but think of how many buyers will now be putting their wallets away waiting for this subsidy that might never come. If Tesla saw orders dropping off a cliff on that news they would have to do something drastic.