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The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

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Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#81

Post by Sharlin »

ekianjo wrote: post #34
consp wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several companies working, especially in the middle East and Africa, who have private armies (sometimes naively called security companies). The comparison hold up here. And until the government took possession of the company in the early 19th century, it was controlled by it's board, not the government. So yes, it was a company. Sanctioned by, but not reporting to, the government.

Having private security companies makes sense to protect your operations in certain areas where police is deficient. But you will not really see companies invading territories using force these days. That is pretty much the monopoly of government forces.

I wouldn't be surprised if they would, if only there still were nonsovereign territories (in the sense of "having a flag" [1]) around for taking.

[1] https://youtu.be/uEx5G-GOS1k

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#83

Post by ignoramous »

jacquesm wrote: post #65
coldtea wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> VOC was an incredible enterprise It's easy to be incredible on the backs and dead bodies of slaves...

This should not be downvoted, it is historically accurate, the VOC imported 10's of thousands of slaves to do work that they were not prepared to pay for. It's a nice example of there being a huge crime at the foundation of huge riches, the VOC was definitely not a clean company by any stretch of the imagination and to this day the names of those who were responsible for the worst atrocities are proudly on display in…

> to this day the names of those who were responsible for the worst atrocities are proudly on display in the streets of various Dutch cities.

Last Week Tonight discussed this from US Civil War PoV: https://youtu.be/J5b_-TZwQ0I

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#84

Post by shardinator »

ionised wrote: post #77
Illniyar wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume he meant to decry the use of inflation adjusting and similar shenanigans to be able to compare two groups in vastly different ages. It is similar to saying that a peasant in today's world eats/lives better then a king a thousand years ago. For instance if you use percentage of world wealth as ameasure, then Adam controlled 50% of the world's wealth, arguably the richest person to ever live (or mythologically…

I doubt a peasant today eats as well as a King of even 1000 years ago. Lives better, maybe. Eats better? Hell no.

And same but differently I doubt a king of today eats as well as a peasant of a thousand years ago - aside from famine times. Today we all eat just a few plant and (for most) animal species. This is bad for the gut microbiome, health and our enjoyment of life in general - and its prob true for even the most wealthy.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#85

Post by 0db532a0 »

jacquesm wrote: post #65
coldtea wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> VOC was an incredible enterprise It's easy to be incredible on the backs and dead bodies of slaves...

This should not be downvoted, it is historically accurate, the VOC imported 10's of thousands of slaves to do work that they were not prepared to pay for. It's a nice example of there being a huge crime at the foundation of huge riches, the VOC was definitely not a clean company by any stretch of the imagination and to this day the names of those who were responsible for the worst atrocities are proudly on display in…

It wasn’t a crime at the time.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#86

Post by mistercow »

em500 wrote: post #68

This is a non-sensical article, relying on some obfuscating math hidden behind "Infl. Adjusted". Inflation adjustments gets pretty fuzzy even in the same nation across a few decades, let alone between different nations across centuries. The article equates the 1637 peak valuation of 78 million guilders with current day 7,900,000 million dollars (not the 79,000 million according to the bad math in the article!). Now c…

From what I’ve seen, these claims seem to be based on the assumption that there has been an average annual inflation rate of 3% since the 1600s. That assumption works in the 20th century, but by 17th century theories on monetary policy, a 3% inflation rate would have likely been cause for panic.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#87

Post by jobigoud »

sasasassy wrote: post #82

I didn't check the math but it doesn't surprise me. These guilds were quite often in the business of war making and colonisation, selling ads seem paltry in comparison.

I don't know, today they can sell ads targetting the more than 4 billion people that are on Internet. Back then the total population was half a billion and most weren't potential targets for any market.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#89

Post by close04 »

em500 wrote: post #78
close04 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the best measure would be what percentage of the total world's wealth (valuation?) does a company represent at some point.

Good luck estimating both 17th-century world wealth in Dutch guilders and 21st-century world wealth in USD, both within an order of magnitude. That's at leasts several months, if not years worth of research work in there.

Oh I'm sure it's a lot of work. But that's the whole point right? Getting a proper answer. Guesstimates and half calculations are also imprecise enough to make such articles basically just an exercise in imagination rather than an accurate representation of the facts.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#90

Post by D_Alex »

ionised wrote: post #77
Illniyar wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume he meant to decry the use of inflation adjusting and similar shenanigans to be able to compare two groups in vastly different ages. It is similar to saying that a peasant in today's world eats/lives better then a king a thousand years ago. For instance if you use percentage of world wealth as ameasure, then Adam controlled 50% of the world's wealth, arguably the richest person to ever live (or mythologically…

I doubt a peasant today eats as well as a King of even 1000 years ago. Lives better, maybe. Eats better? Hell no.

I am not sure who would eat better... consider:

- the variety of foods available today is far greater, especially in winter - Spices available 1000 years ago were quite limited, today any supermarket will have 100 varieties from all around the world for like $2/satchel - refrigeration allows safe storage of food - Things like ice cream, chocolate, popcorn etc etc just did not exist.

So I think a "peasant" today CAN eat tastier and healthier food than kings of 1000 years ago... whether or not they choose to is another matter.

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