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Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#81

Post by msiyer »

burtonator wrote: post #8

One of the first human foods was actually bone marrow which is basically pure fat. This happened about 2MYA by Homo habilis who figured out that you could use rocks to bust open bones. Lions and Hyenas would leave huge piles of bones in the middle of the dessert which had been picked clean by vultures. One of our ancestors had the brilliant idea to use a rock to bust open the bones. Well it's a massive source of free…

How can bone marrow be one of the first human foods? Humans had to learn the use of tools first to access bone marrow. Humans needed a better brain to figure out how to create and use tools.

Also, predators are very intelligent. They can and will break open bones. Domestic dogs do that. Hyenas are renowned for their bone-crushing abilities.

Bone marrow is not the only source of fat. There are plenty of plant-based foods rich in fat

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#82

Post by narag »

nightski wrote: post #62
narag wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...to carbs bad fat good in the span of like a decade Not at all. I remember it was a thing in the seventies. The low-carbs diet has been viciously attacked for many decades, so it comes and goes every few years. I first heard of it when Atkins popularized it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkins_diet See how Wikipedia says it's "a fad diet" and its claims "questionable", implying that it doesn't work at all. But now…

However, while both are low carb the ketogenic diet and the atkins diet are different. Keto generally refers to a diet very low carb, protein as needed, and higher fat (generally most calories come from fat). Atkins was a low carb, high protein diet.

Atkins diet is a ketogenic diet. First week is next to zero carbs. Then slow carbs are introduced gradually, always trying to keep the ketosis, that stops around 60 or 70 g of carbs a day.

No idea what "keto" label currently means. If you take a moment to review my previous comment, you'll see what exactly I was responding to.

Edit: just to make it more clear, Atkins didn't tell how much proteins or fat you should eat, that's up to you, just that you must keep ketosis on so you need to keep carbs under certain limits and completely avoid sugars.

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#83

Post by TeMPOraL »

jessaustin wrote: post #47
mattnewport wrote: post #31

> “We have no examples today of animals that scavenge but don’t hunt,” he adds. I've seen a number of articles in the last few years talking about how scavenging meat seems to be much more common amongst animals we typically consider herbivores (like deer) than previously realized. There are also a number of opportunistic omnivorous scavengers that rely more on scavenging than hunting it they hunt at all. This claim…

Most ungulates eat their own afterbirth. Sure, that's easier to digest than most carcasses would be, and less likely to spread disease, but it shows that meat digestion is possible.

If I'm to believe [0], that applies to many if not most mammals, some humans included.

--

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placental_expulsion

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#84

Post by narag »

darkpuma wrote: post #56
narag wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...to carbs bad fat good in the span of like a decade Not at all. I remember it was a thing in the seventies. The low-carbs diet has been viciously attacked for many decades, so it comes and goes every few years. I first heard of it when Atkins popularized it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkins_diet See how Wikipedia says it's "a fad diet" and its claims "questionable", implying that it doesn't work at all. But now…

The notion that low-carb diets are superior has deeply unsettling political implications, for exactly the same reason that low-meat diets don't: what are the staple crops of humanity? The top ten in order are: corn, rice, wheat, potatoes, sassava, soybeans, sweat potatoes, yams, sorghum, and plantains . These are all carbs! If we accept that low carb diets are better for people, then we must either accept that we are…

Please, understand that Atkins diet is not a diet recommended for everybody. It's a diet created to help people that suffer an imbalance in their diet (or worse, in their metabolism) that has made them get fat and they want to lose weight.

That's why "balanced diet" is an absurd recommendation for fat people. If you're following a balanced diet, you probably don't need to lose weight. Atkins himself recommended a balanced diet, just avoiding refined carbs, for most people.

One personal comment: I wouldn't follow any diet proposed by activists of any kind, specially when their main motive is their particular ethics that, at least for me, suggest a strong bias. Unless of course I share that same ethical vision. Edit: I actually wouldn't follow any life advice from activists of any kind, I'd rather have my own agenda.

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#85

Post by LoSboccacc »

kylek wrote: post #50
code_duck wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extended simmering (>6 hours) releases much of the nutrients in bones, too - collagen, gelatin, fats, minerals. I frequently slow-cook whole chickens and small bones become so soft they can easily be eaten after about 24 hours. Of course, you don't want to over-do this due to issues like histamine and lead.

I'm been a huge fan of bone broth lately. 9g protein/cup vs none in normal chicken/beef broth - and I find it tastier to boot. (Though it's almost always out of stock at the local grocery store)

they don't stock stock but broth?

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#86

Post by cardiffspaceman »

narag wrote: post #82
nightski wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, while both are low carb the ketogenic diet and the atkins diet are different. Keto generally refers to a diet very low carb, protein as needed, and higher fat (generally most calories come from fat). Atkins was a low carb, high protein diet.

Atkins diet is a ketogenic diet. First week is next to zero carbs. Then slow carbs are introduced gradually, always trying to keep the ketosis, that stops around 60 or 70 g of carbs a day. No idea what "keto" label currently means. If you take a moment to review my previous comment, you'll see what exactly I was responding to. Edit: just to make it more clear, Atkins didn't tell how much proteins or fat you should ea…

Indeed Atkins advised tracking ketosis with test strips in his book.

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#87

Post by Benjamin_Dobell »

SRTP wrote: post #51
quadcore wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use to feed street dogs in Thailand. I gave them BBQ-cooked chicken legs, and gosh, there would be nothing left in 10 seconds.

While I'm sure you did this out of good will, please don't give chicken bones to dogs. They tend to splinter, leaving sharp spikes that may hurt the dog's intestines. Beef and pork bones are better since these don't shatter.

Just to clarify, chicken bones themselves aren't a huge issue. It's cooked chicken bones, actually any cooked bones at all, that splinter and cause problems.

Of course, birds have small bones so dogs can conceivably choke on them when uncooked as well, but it's generally not a huge concern. The splintering however, is a result of cooking[1].

[1] https://www.rspcapetinsurance.org.au/pet-care/pet-ownership/...

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#88

Post by darkpuma »

narag wrote: post #84
darkpuma wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The notion that low-carb diets are superior has deeply unsettling political implications, for exactly the same reason that low-meat diets don't: what are the staple crops of humanity? The top ten in order are: corn, rice, wheat, potatoes, sassava, soybeans, sweat potatoes, yams, sorghum, and plantains . These are all carbs! If we accept that low carb diets are better for people, then we must either accept that we are…

Please, understand that Atkins diet is not a diet recommended for everybody . It's a diet created to help people that suffer an imbalance in their diet (or worse, in their metabolism) that has made them get fat and they want to lose weight. That's why "balanced diet" is an absurd recommendation for fat people. If you're following a balanced diet, you probably don't need to lose weight. Atkins himself recommended a ba…

There are people who recommend obese people adopt diets that induce ketosis. These people are not suggesting diets that should be followed by everybody. However there are also people who say that carb intake should be greatly reduced across the board for everybody, that even something seemingly extreme like a 90% reduction of carbs in the average diet wouldn't be enough to induce ketosis but would nevertheless be far healthier.

However the current size of the human population is incompatible with anything other than the vast majority of people getting the vast majority of their calories from carbs. For that reason, people recommending a large reduction on carb intake across the board will almost certainly continue to be marginalized, pushed to the sidelines in most mainstream discussions.

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#89

Post by pm »

koverda wrote: post #6

Wouldn't other animals with strong bites be capable of crushing bones to eat the marrow inside? The theory is big on assumptions, but I guess that's how it goes when you're trying to figure out what happened millions of years ago.

Hyenas are known to eat bone. The bearded vulture is the only known bird that eats bone marrow, and cracks open bones by dropping them on rocks from a great height.

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#90

Post by mateo1 »

im3w1l wrote: post #49
village-idiot wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brain size to body size matters a lot too. Sperm whales have about 6x the brain we do, but far more than 6x the body to control.

I know this is the conventional wisdom but it doesn't really make sense. Controlling a sperm whale's body doesn't seem like a hard computational problem.

Echolocation in a "true" 3d environment is a very hard computational problem, which is why many aqueous mammals developed larger brains.
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