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25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

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Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#81

Post by raverbashing »

iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #55
ben165 wrote: post #3

>Bob: Is there any advice you'd like to give to young programmers/computer science students? >Linus: I'm actually the worst person to ask. I knew I was interested in math and computers since an early age, and I was largely self-taught until university. And everything I did was fairly self-driven. So I don't understand the problems people face when they say "what should I do?" It's not where I came from at all. This i…

Why is it stupid? Instead of spending hours working to understand and implement a concept / fix. Get other people to do it for internet points. Seems surpisingly “smart” to me. It all depends on what you’re optinizing for.

Sure, but the internet can't solve all your problems. Especially not for internet points

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#82

Post by LandR »

std_throwawayay wrote: post #79
decoyworker wrote: post #76

I'd like to see someone ask: If you were to redesign Linux from scratch right now what would you do differently?

Would he use C++ or Rust?

IIRC, I think he's said previously that he doesn't want C++ in the kernal and doesn't think Rust is suitable.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#83

Post by raxxorrax »

alkonaut wrote: post #78
raxxorrax wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Suddenly you'll be forced to either accept a code of conduct, or actively choose not to do so. Funnily, it would allegedly require me to be active to not accept a code of conduct. I would disagree with that. These code are nothing new and formerly often called something like netiquette or something. Some guidelines a community agreed upon and could be leveraged for common ground in cases of disagreement. The differ…

> it would allegedly require me to be active to not accept a code of conduct. I would disagree with that. Once you reach a certain amount of attention, the question will be raised, and at that point not adopting an explicit CoC will be met with questions and seen as an active political stance. I don't know if I think that's fair - but it's the way it is. > I wonder why people that tend to argue that everything is pol…

True, at that point it is a political issue. And I mean those that would take an issue with not adopting a ruleset that allegedly is mandatory, but isn't really. And yes, that would be my stance against this innocent question.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#84

Post by S_A_P »

ben165 wrote: post #3

>Bob: Is there any advice you'd like to give to young programmers/computer science students? >Linus: I'm actually the worst person to ask. I knew I was interested in math and computers since an early age, and I was largely self-taught until university. And everything I did was fairly self-driven. So I don't understand the problems people face when they say "what should I do?" It's not where I came from at all. This i…

I get where you are coming from here, but calling someone stupid for looking to get past a sticking point isnt stupid. spinning your wheels when an answer exists is stupid. I think stack overflow proves that there is most likely no problem you are solving that hasnt been solved before, and given the pace of change of things, nobody can know everything. Heck I still google SQL 101 questions on occasion and I write sql/C#/C++ daily. I can either rack my brain and beat myself up for not remembering some syntax, or go look up the answer...

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#85

Post by coldtea »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #70
coldtea wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And people who say that want to guilt-trip the entire civilization into self-destructing And people who say that haven't noticed that the "self-destructing" is going quite well by itself, and that some guilt-trip is actually needed to avoid it...

No, a lot of this guilt-tripping and politicizing is actually contributing to the self-destruction - it divides people more, makes them less likely to care about each other, and sucks out the oxygen in the media, so that the big problems cannot be discussed productively.

The eras when "big problems [were] discussed productively" (and something was done about them) were the eras when the division was at its highest.

E.g. the division between the civil rights people and those that wanted a segregated society.

Or the division between the anti-war movement in the later sixties and the "patriotic" pro-Vietnam war establishment.

Else, the bipartisan consensus (or small differences) just leads to the incremental management of what's there, and no real initiative for change (e.g. like the last 3+ decades regarding the environment or inequality).

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#86

Post by alkonaut »

flukus wrote: post #57
alkonaut wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They do, their message is usually related to their field of expertise. A good sportsman will act as an example of how to be a good sport, how to conduct yourself when you lose, how to be a good winner, etc. A good OS maintainer will set an example through code and their leadership will show the team what is and isn't acceptable. It's rarely that easy. Suddenly you'll be forced to either accept a code of conduct, or…

> Suddenly you'll be forced to either accept a code of conduct, or actively choose not to do so. A strange example considering codes of conduct are forcing people to become more apolitcal. They force politics into venues were it didn't exist before. > The footballer will need to decide whether or not to take a knee during the national anthem Not kneeling is apolitical, it doesn't mean you condone any stance whatsoeve…

> Not kneeling is apolitical

Is it? Who decides that? The athlete might not even know what political position they are taking. Or they might be seen as taking the opposite position as the one they think they are taking. It's all in the eye of the beholder. As soon as enough people believe that not adopting a CoC or not kneeling IS in fact a political stance/statement - then it also is. At that point, it doesn't matter whether a player says "I don't want to take any political side here so I'll just stand, thanks". It's out of their hands. This is an exaggerated example (the CoC one is more reasonable) but I hope you get my point - whether or not you take a political stance might not even be deliberate, or conscious. Some times it might be better to at least do it consciously then.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#87

Post by flukus »

alkonaut wrote: post #86
flukus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Suddenly you'll be forced to either accept a code of conduct, or actively choose not to do so. A strange example considering codes of conduct are forcing people to become more apolitcal. They force politics into venues were it didn't exist before. > The footballer will need to decide whether or not to take a knee during the national anthem Not kneeling is apolitical, it doesn't mean you condone any stance whatsoeve…

> Not kneeling is apolitical Is it? Who decides that? The athlete might not even know what political position they are taking. Or they might be seen as taking the opposite position as the one they think they are taking. It's all in the eye of the beholder. As soon as enough people believe that not adopting a CoC or not kneeling IS in fact a political stance/statement - then it also is. At that point, it doesn't matte…

Now you've expanded the definition of political so much I simply don't care if something is political or not, the word has lost all meaning.

You've also completely avoid my question, do you want the majority of the world who don't think society should accept homosexuality to be voicing their opinions more?

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#88

Post by rakoo »

bch wrote: post #27
adwn wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He even punts on a softball question and makes it about himself That's because it was about himself! Bob asked him for his advice. > how about “have fun, exercise and stay healthy and dive in!” That's such an overused, uninspired, undistinguished answer. Why would you ask Linus if that's what you want to hear?

It is - a simplistic throw away I came up with as I typed, and still more valuable than “don’t ask me”. I’m just bemoaning that after 25 years he’s still an antihero.

I value a real answer that shows who _he_ is much more than a generic quote you can find on a wish card _anyone_ can receive. The interview is about him after all.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#89

Post by madez »

jaabe wrote: post #77
ben165 wrote: post #3

>Bob: Is there any advice you'd like to give to young programmers/computer science students? >Linus: I'm actually the worst person to ask. I knew I was interested in math and computers since an early age, and I was largely self-taught until university. And everything I did was fairly self-driven. So I don't understand the problems people face when they say "what should I do?" It's not where I came from at all. This i…

I don’t think stackoverflow is a problem at all, I think it’s much better to have people ask stupid questions than to call them stupid. That being said, I do think people owe it to themselves to read the documentation first. I’m extremely rarely in a situation where the official documentation isn’t monumentally better than every other option. There are a few exceptions of course, when the official documentation flat…

It seems to me there is some kind of political war going on when it comes to education about computers.

One side argues, they must know what a computer is, how it roughly works, what it can do and cannot do, and how you can program it.

The other side says, knowing how to use Microsoft Office and Excel, and Facebook and Instagram 'responsibly' is enough, and they fight tooth and nails that the education doesn't become deeper.

This is my experience in Germany, though, where digitalization is understood as replacing books by tablet computers from Apple in school.

Have you made similar experiences?

Edit: Let me reiterate on that. I think part of the fierce resistance against deeper education is fueled by fear.

To explain that, I see how mathematics is used in schools as a rough intelligence test. And the results in math are important, not because people would need differentiation of nested functions at work, but because the grade in math is used as a proxy by the society.

Abstract thinking is difficult for many. And they dislike it. A fundamental education in computers requires abstract thinking. So with that, there would be even more filterng between those who think good, and those that don't. People are afraid of that. So they fight that change.

I think people are afraid of loosing out and becoming meaningless and irrelevant in a world of computers, i.e. a world of abstract thinking.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#90

Post by yourapostasy »

ben165 wrote: post #3

>Bob: Is there any advice you'd like to give to young programmers/computer science students? >Linus: I'm actually the worst person to ask. I knew I was interested in math and computers since an early age, and I was largely self-taught until university. And everything I did was fairly self-driven. So I don't understand the problems people face when they say "what should I do?" It's not where I came from at all. This i…

> This is a problem I don't understand too.

I always tell my clients' staff "There are no such questions as 'stupid' questions" to encourage them to explore. People in many cultures don't explore by and large because they're afraid of ridicule. I take pains to tell everyone who is exploring, including myself, that while exploring a new skill, concept or task, a state of discomfort and clumsiness is normal. Somehow our "go-fast", pre-packaged-experience culture has forgotten this lesson that every infant learns early on.

This "what should I do?" posture permeates many retiring individuals, as well. I have an Emacs Org file with over 6,000 lines of "I want to try this..." reminders that I'm adding to many times a week and sometimes several times a day, so this is very much a "...not where I came from..." that I've puzzled over for awhile. I hypothesize that this happens because many people allow a perception (whether by themselves or via others) that pigeon-holes themselves and their human potential.

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