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No one should have to travel in fear

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Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#81

Post by throwawaystale »

geofft wrote: post #75
throwawaystale wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's just say I have a lot or respect for the possibilities I'm aware of, together with a general sense that there's a lot that I don't know. In any case, just because you usually get your laptop handed right back, it doesn't follow that you always will. If it matters to you, buy that burner.

Even so: 1. I can expect that there's a chance that my laptop will be taken from me (and perhaps returned modified or perhaps taken permanently) while still not being okay with that. It's one thing to expect a right to be violated; it's another thing to give up. 2. It's not unreasonable to travel with a laptop while expecting a small chance that it's taken, in which case you'll buy a new one and restore from backup,…

1. Indeed, I'm only talking about is, not ought. Please do complain. Leave Trump out, though. Nothing he can do about it, and if he seriously tried, he'd wake up with a horse's head in his bed.

2. If you truly believe your laptop is clean and encryption sufficiently uncrackable, go ahead. I don't think I'm that smart, myself.

Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#82

Post by GeekyBear »

Glen Greenwald started writing about this back in 2012.

>One of the more extreme government abuses of the post-9/11 era targets U.S. citizens re-entering their own country, and it has received far too little attention. With no oversight or legal framework whatsoever, the Department of Homeland Security routinely singles out individuals who are suspected of no crimes, detains them and questions them at the airport, often for hours, when they return to the U.S. after an international trip, and then copies and even seizes their electronic devices (laptops, cameras, cellphones) and other papers (notebooks, journals, credit card receipts), forever storing their contents in government files. No search warrant is needed for any of this. No oversight exists. And there are no apparent constraints on what the U.S. Government can do with regard to whom it decides to target or why.

https://www.salon.com/2012/04/08/u_s_filmmaker_repeatedly_de...

Laura Poitras, the documentary filmmaker whose story was told in the above link faced several dozen of these incidents between the Bush and the Obama years.

Interestingly, Edward Snowden learned who Poitras was from this series of stories, and Poitras' experiences with repeated searches and seizures led to her learning enough about encryption so that when Snowden decided to contact the press and become a whistleblower, Poitras was the first journalist he attempted to contact who knew enough to be able to exchange encryption keys and communicate with him directly.

Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#83

Post by geofft »

maximilianroos wrote: post #77
mchristen wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American and I have been detained and searched by CBP without actually ever leaving the country. They didn't ask my name, just that we needed to get out of the car while they let their dog search the car.

You don't have to get out of the car. CBP only have power to stop you to ascertain the citizenship of the passengers. They need reasonable suspicion to further detain you, or probable cause to search you or your car. You can consent to the search, but you don't need to. If you refuse consent and they lack probable cause, the evidence would be suppressed. For more details: https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/i…

On a side note, it's probably a problem that people are told "Can you get out of the car so we can have this dog search it" and hear "You must get out of the car so we can have this dog search it," but my understanding is the courts put a lot of weight on that distinction.

Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#84

Post by zanny »

Diederich wrote: post #53
komali2 wrote: post #23

Dunno what to do about this. I think TSA is a sham and a waste of my money. I think border control is taking my money and using it to abuse people. I don't think it's ok that I can pay to avoid the poor people line at the airport. I've written my reps and the president, I call about once a month, but it has no measurable effect. Smarter people than me have done audits on TSA and published them in famous newspapers to…

> Partner and I are considering abandoning the USA. Any thoughts about where you'd move? Some places in the world are better, but it feels like our whole civilization is trending in this bad direction.

Its not by coincidence though, TPTB use economic pressure to institute common policy and ideology anywhere they can influence. That is why pretty much any nation with rule of law also adheres to US IP doctrine and has treaties in place to be subject to the will of North America and Europe for extradition, trade, business rights, etc.

Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#85

Post by brlewis »

They informed me that I had no right to speak to an attorney at the border despite being a U.S. citizen, and threatened me that failure to immediately comply with their demand is a violation of federal criminal code 18 USC 111.

The Justice dept refutes the part about 18 USC 111. A forcible act must be involved, not passive resistance: https://www.justice.gov/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1565-for...

Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#86

Post by zeveb »

zachberger wrote: post #42
komali2 wrote: post #23

Dunno what to do about this. I think TSA is a sham and a waste of my money. I think border control is taking my money and using it to abuse people. I don't think it's ok that I can pay to avoid the poor people line at the airport. I've written my reps and the president, I call about once a month, but it has no measurable effect. Smarter people than me have done audits on TSA and published them in famous newspapers to…

You don't have to pay to bypass the lines. The free "Mobile Passport" app allows you to go into a line is almost as quick as Global Entry.

I would never, ever install a mobile app from the State on my primary phone account. That just seems like asking for trouble.

Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#87

Post by dsr_ »

zeveb wrote: post #86
zachberger wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to pay to bypass the lines. The free "Mobile Passport" app allows you to go into a line is almost as quick as Global Entry.

I would never, ever install a mobile app from the State on my primary phone account. That just seems like asking for trouble.

No need for it to go on your primary phone account. Install it on the cheap phone you take on trips.

Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#89

Post by zeveb »

throwawaystale wrote: post #38

He's saying he was targeted because he's known to disapprove of the Trump administration? Please. If anything, it was considerably worse prior to 2016. A better question would be why someone technically knowledgeable would be carrying a laptop through airline security at all. As soon as it's out of your hands, you have to assume it's been blown, security-wise. Far better to just buy a burner Chromebook at your destin…

> If anything, it was considerably worse prior to 2016.

I would have been seriously surprised if CBP cared about who donated to Democratic candidates — but then, the IRS under Mr. Obama did attack Republican groups, with very few negative consequences for the culprits, as did the Milwaukee DA. I really hope that bad precedent has not led to further bad behaviour. The rule of law is important, no matter who you are, and abusing the coercive power of the State for political ends moves us one step closer to the unthinkable.

Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#90

Post by gumby »

zachberger wrote: post #42
komali2 wrote: post #23

Dunno what to do about this. I think TSA is a sham and a waste of my money. I think border control is taking my money and using it to abuse people. I don't think it's ok that I can pay to avoid the poor people line at the airport. I've written my reps and the president, I call about once a month, but it has no measurable effect. Smarter people than me have done audits on TSA and published them in famous newspapers to…

You don't have to pay to bypass the lines. The free "Mobile Passport" app allows you to go into a line is almost as quick as Global Entry.

Only available for US citizens, not GC holders.
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