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Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

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Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#81

Post by jonathanyc »

chrisseaton wrote: post #4
jonathanyc wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I can’t understand why you’d be so confidently wrong about a complex legal subject. https://whoismyemployee.com/2017/08/14/can-independent-contr...

As your link says 'antitrust law generally forbids businesses from banding together and collectively fixing prices and other conditions', but that's just one thing a union might want to do, and it doesn't stop individuals joining unions. As I said, you can literally not work for anyone at all and join a union. This is what the unions will advise you > Even though you are not considered an “employee” under federal lab…

I’d invite you to read the section directly after the quote you cherrypicked. For all intents and purposes you are not able to unionize because you aren’t protected under the NLRA. That is just how it is at present in the US—I’m still surprised you’re trying to dispute this basic fact. Perhaps you live in a different country with saner laws.

Again, this is a complex subject, and I’m not sure why you are so confident about your lack of knowledge.

EDIT: I think I get it now—chriseaton is from the UK and is unfamiliar with US labor laws. In the US the primary purpose of unions is collective bargaining (see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_the_United_S...). Independent contractors very much cannot join a union for the purpose of collective bargaining, which is confirmed in both my reference and their reference. The NLRA, which empowers employees to form unions and collectively bargain, explicitly excludes independent contractors (see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Labor_Relations_Act...). I should have noticed his misunderstanding earlier.

Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#82

Post by chrisseaton »

jonathanyc wrote: post #81
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As your link says 'antitrust law generally forbids businesses from banding together and collectively fixing prices and other conditions', but that's just one thing a union might want to do, and it doesn't stop individuals joining unions. As I said, you can literally not work for anyone at all and join a union. This is what the unions will advise you > Even though you are not considered an “employee” under federal lab…

I’d invite you to read the section directly after the quote you cherrypicked. For all intents and purposes you are not able to unionize because you aren’t protected under the NLRA. That is just how it is at present in the US—I’m still surprised you’re trying to dispute this basic fact. Perhaps you live in a different country with saner laws. Again, this is a complex subject, and I’m not sure why you are so confident…

> I’m still surprised you’re trying to dispute this basic fact

The article goes on to give specific examples of contractors who are unionised, including in technology, so it cannot be a fact.

Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#83

Post by bksenior »

tunesmith wrote: post #54

So many parallels to the music industry here. You have a vc-funded company, operating at a loss, commoditizing the "talent" (drivers/musicians), thereby conditioning the audience (passengers/listeners) to expect an unsustainable cost for the service, using that loss leader mentality to drive other solutions out of business, until they argue or take action that the talent should expect even lower rates than they've hi…

What? One is a marginal cost business and one is not. Not a great take.

Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#84

Post by tlackemann »

manicdee wrote: post #70
reilly3000 wrote: post #47

Its like they see developers and drivers as two different species. For every twenty something dev that makes $132K, there is a fourty something trying to rebuild a life post-trauma, doing their best to net $13K. Since insurance and gas aren't cheaper, the driver now will net $6K next year, while the dev would jump ship to another company if they didn't get a $6K bonus. While my head understands the economic principle…

It doesn’t need to, but that same developer that will jump ship for a pay rise will also jump ship if their pay is cut to afford higher rates for the workers bringing the actual value to the company. Why should I take a 50% pay cut just so the people driving the cars earning our incomes can afford to eat?

Because the people that pay your income so that you can afford to eat also make an income so that they can afford to eat.

As a developer who could "jump ship" to get a pay raise, I feel like I'm at a point where I understand too much is too much and there are a billion other people who need out attention. You don't need seven figures, no one does. We all want different things. So why not let people respectfully wish better for themselves?

Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#85

Post by jonathanyc »

chrisseaton wrote: post #82
jonathanyc wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d invite you to read the section directly after the quote you cherrypicked. For all intents and purposes you are not able to unionize because you aren’t protected under the NLRA. That is just how it is at present in the US—I’m still surprised you’re trying to dispute this basic fact. Perhaps you live in a different country with saner laws. Again, this is a complex subject, and I’m not sure why you are so confident…

> I’m still surprised you’re trying to dispute this basic fact The article goes on to give specific examples of contractors who are unionised, including in technology, so it cannot be a fact.

Please read up on the NLRA and the history of unions in the US before continuing to comment.

EDIT: I wonder now if the core of this misunderstanding is the difference between “to join a union” and “to unionize”? See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_the_United_S...

Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#86

Post by russdpale »

usaphp wrote: post #69
empath75 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s obscene how much I make for what I do, having grown up in a blue collar family, working jobs that are far harder than what I do now, making minimum wage. If I didn’t have a family, I’d probably still rather be a software developer at $10 an hour instead of working at a KFC kitchen making what I make as a software developer now.

I don’t know what you do but to me working as a programmer, thinking all day and solving problems, is much harder than just driving around people.

Yeh but so is loading 1000 packages into 4 or 5 trucks. Or 2500 packages into an 18 wheeler.

Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#87

Post by ars »

fucking_tragedy wrote: post #50
ars wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and intentionally blurs the line between employee and contractor for profit. What profit are they making by doing that? > Similarly, in the past, people made the rational choice to sell themselves into indentured servitude. People also made the rational choice to sell their children to factory owners or into marriages for dowries. And are you blaming the person who took them it, or the conditions that led to that?…

> What profit are they making by doing that? They're shedding expensive employee entitlements and liabilities. > They have the power to not work for Uber. A person's ability to exercise their power is proportional to the their financial security. A hungry person will have to make decisions in desperation to secure their next meal. A person behind on their rent will take whatever opportunity they can to secure a roof…

> They're shedding expensive employee entitlements and liabilities.

If they paid those, they would just pay the person less. It doesn't actually change anything financially for the company.

>A person's ability to exercise their power is proportional to the their financial security. A hungry person will have to make decisions in desperation to secure their next meal. A person behind on their rent will take whatever opportunity they can to secure a roof over their head.

And? What does any of that have to do with Uber? They offered a job, either the person is better off with it, or they aren't.

It's not like there is a monopoly here. If Uber raised their rates there would be less trips taken, and less drivers would have jobs.

If the drivers feel they aren't making enough money, they would drive less, or not at all. Then rates would go up (if by no other means then by surge pricing).

I've talked to Uber drivers - by far, dwarfing all other issues, their #1 issue is there are not enough customers.

If they raised rates there would be even fewer customers - how does that help anyone?

Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#88

Post by chrisseaton »

jonathanyc wrote: post #85
chrisseaton wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m still surprised you’re trying to dispute this basic fact The article goes on to give specific examples of contractors who are unionised, including in technology, so it cannot be a fact.

Please read up on the NLRA and the history of unions in the US before continuing to comment. EDIT: I wonder now if the core of this misunderstanding is the difference between “to join a union” and “to unionize”? See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_the_United_S...

Have you got any specific points? Is that article wrong? You're just repeatedly saying you think I'm wrong without saying why.

Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#90

Post by ars »

intopieces wrote: post #55
ars wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies like Uber love to prey on such people. Offering someone a job is preying? Either they want it or they don't. Either it makes them money or they don't. You're talking like they are better off if Uber didn't offer them the job.

You're assuming that the people taking the job are fully informed, rational actors, not acting under financial duress. This is not a reasonable assumption for a near-permanent economic underclass. Your rationale could be extended outward to every adverse outcome for poor: "Well, poor people have higher rates of obesity and cancer because of their poor life choices in eating fast food and smoking." It's a convenient o…

> You're assuming that the people taking the job are fully informed, rational actors, not acting under financial duress. This is not a reasonable assumption for a near-permanent economic underclass.

Sorry-not-sorry, for assuming people are not idiots. Either they have money to pay bills or they don't. It's not that complicated, and people are not idiots.

> "Well, poor people have higher rates of obesity and cancer because of their poor life choices in eating fast food and smoking."

And your plan is to what? Micro-manage people's life and tell them what they can, and can't do?

> It's a convenient out for the exploiters to blame their victims.

It's only exploiting if you trick them, mislead them, lie to them, or force them.

Fine print no one reads? Sure, complain about it. Hidden fees and the like? Outlaw those.

But a straightforward transaction? What are you complaining for?

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