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Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

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Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#81

Post by Arnt »

dpq wrote: post #68
Arnt wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal is borderline unusable? I've never used Telegram but if that's your assessment of Signal, Telegram must be great. Can you tell me about it?

Honestly I think the docs/official feature map at telegram.org would do a better job than me. I don't think you'd enjoy TG if none of your friends are using it, though [obviously]. Edit: ok I launched Signal which was installed on my phone since forever but never saw any active use, and I must say I remember it to be much worse than it actually is. Either it's seen a lot of improvement, or my initial experience frust…

What an underwhelming assessment.

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#82

Post by tadzik_ »

ta2223332221 wrote: post #79
tadzik_ wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, please don't. Open Whisper Systems is a company that uses "open-source" as a marketing term while bullying the people who choose to take advantage of it. You can build your own client, but if you start to distribute it, they'll ban you from using their servers[1], with an explanation plain ridiculous for a company that took thousands of dollars from various open source foundations. The server is open source,…

"Open source" means the SOURCE CODE is OPEN. Which it is. The internet is full of half-baked "secure" and "private" chat clients and servers. Security is hard to get right. I'm guessing they don't want the reputation of Signal muddled up with some other random client. IIUC anyone can run their own network, and make it as open as they like, using their code, they just can't call it Signal. Much like how Firefox and Re…

Sure it is: but how do you know if it really is the source code of Signal?

For all we know, both the Signal network and its client are a half-baked "secure" and "private" chat, and the source code they publish is an elaborate decoy (though probably a subset of the real underlying code, for obvious reasons).

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#83

Post by mat4magic »

AiaMD13 wrote: post #20
sz4kerto wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Signal has a far superior user experience. Why? I think Telegram is cool, not because of privacy but because of overall UX (speed, battery usage, reliability, etc.) Is Signal way superior in anything apart from privacy?

Can't agree more. Have been using Telegram since I quit using Facebook, and it proved to be far more reliable then even whatsapp. The only problem is that most of people I know prefer and use whatsapp and it's been challenging fo me to maintain all the contacts in one app.

Telegram wins because it has a usable Desktop Client

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#84

Post by kekebo »

roel_v wrote: post #76
cosarara wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad integration with contacts sounds pretty serious.

Well yeah but it's not the mess the gp alludes to.

plus Signal doesn't store all your contacts on their server as Telegram and WhatsApp do

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#85

Post by Tomte »

tadzik_ wrote: post #72
akvadrako wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal is completely "open-source", but that doesn't mean their chat network is open. How can you even confuse those things?

I don't think I'm confusing them – but I do think that their "open-source"-ness is virtually worthless, as the only thing you're allowed to do is read the source yourself and hope that it's the same thing that you're getting from the official packages and servers.

That's a totally different aspect that reproducible builds are supposed to solve.

Your "problem" wouldn't be solved by allowing third-party clients. You still don't know what the server source is.

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#86

Post by ta2223332221 »

tadzik_ wrote: post #82
ta2223332221 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Open source" means the SOURCE CODE is OPEN. Which it is. The internet is full of half-baked "secure" and "private" chat clients and servers. Security is hard to get right. I'm guessing they don't want the reputation of Signal muddled up with some other random client. IIUC anyone can run their own network, and make it as open as they like, using their code, they just can't call it Signal. Much like how Firefox and Re…

Sure it is: but how do you know if it really is the source code of Signal ? For all we know, both the Signal network and its client are a half-baked "secure" and "private" chat, and the source code they publish is an elaborate decoy (though probably a subset of the real underlying code, for obvious reasons).

but how do you know if it really is the source code of Signal?

That's a valid question which used to bug me about open source projects. But apparently they finally figured out that the output of the source needs to be deterministic and match the binaries they ship. This property is called "reproducible builds". Signal claims to have them (modulo some third party libraries), though I haven't personally verified it: https://signal.org/blog/reproducible-android/

Honestly though, trust boils down to trusting people. I trust Signal because I trust Moxie, and I trust Moxie because of his reputation among the prominent security experts publicly active on the internet, at least the ones that I find convincing. As a security layman, that's the best I can do.

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#87

Post by ytjohn »

rplnt wrote: post #22
xrisk wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used Signal and my main qualm with it is that messages don’t sync between platforms and also the phone app is nowhere as good as Telegram’s.

Well, if it would sync, it's not private. Unless the app allows you to sync the keys offline. Telegram doesn't sync either if you enable e2e encryption. But I agree that Telegram apps are great. Both Android ones, and the desktop ones as well. Small, fast, reliable, great UX.

Wire does E2E and sync. Each device has its own key though.

https://wire.com/en/blog/key-verification-secure-conversatio...

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#88

Post by MildlySerious »

bfuller wrote: post #73

Telegram has become my social media mainstay. So much better than anything else, but maybe I just got lucky with the groups I am in.

I am in the same boat. I started using it around 4 years ago when the constant degration of Skype hit a point where I could no longer treat it as my main messenger. Since then, everyone I have regular contact with has become available there, and I haven't looked back. At all. In the last two years it has also become the main hub for a lot of crypto communities, which was very fortunate for me I guess.

I don't use it for privacy, as much as I would like that to be a more prominent feature. It is my Facebook, and I hope to move to a more private platform eventually, but until then the features, usability, unobtrusiveness and solid clients on all my devices are the reason I'm staying.

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#89

Post by Tomte »

botto wrote: post #25

Telegram is scary and questionable. Inventing your own encryption is never the answer and reeks of horrible understanding of security, at this stage there is no reason they should not adopt a standard of communication like Signal protocol. Signal app itself is ok, it's a little....annoying as it requires a phone number and the UX needs some love. Keybase is great, It has ways of verifying you across multiple services…

Signal/RedPhone did invent its own crypto (the ratchet), didn't they?

Re: Telegram gets 3M new signups during Facebook apps’ outage

#90

Post by detaro »

tadzik_ wrote: post #74
detaro wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not dishonest. You might not like their policy (I'm not a fan of it either), but it's clearly stated, based on consistent logic and not at odds with the software being open-source.

Fair point; I guess too often I expect "free software" when I see "open-source". I don't think I'm the only one though, at least to a degree. When the only thing you allow your users is to read the source code, you are technically open-source, but it's the kind of openness that doesn't guarantee anything. More and more often companies use the term "Open source software" because they know that people will walk around…

They don't just allow you to read the source. You can start a competitor to them, using their own source code! The software is under (A)GPL, how is it not "Free Software"?

You're mixing up rights to the software with rights to Signal's name and infrastructure.

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