I wonder how would people react if it had an undisclosed 360-degree IR camera with LED.
Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret
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Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of all places to 'spy' on folks, on a cramped airplane seems like the worst. Most people will be 1) asleep, 2) pissed off, 3) eating shitty food, 4) watching bad movies. It's likely that they decided to shove in some cheap android tablets that someone else sold them. It's unlikely that they are actively watching everyone, though the possibility of them switching on the camera to watch/record you shifting in your seat…
I used to go to a gym where the exercise machines all had Windows tablets built in. They all had a camera and Skype installed. I'm still curious who ever wants to Skype all sweaty during an exercise, but probably the same person who wants to Skype on an airplane.
> who ever wants to Skype all sweaty during an exercise
I should imagine there's a non-zero number of fetishists who would pay $ for a live Skype call and/or webcam show with an exerciser.
Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret
#83Oh wow, this is amazing. There's been a lawsuit in court about someone in Germany who sued their landlord because the landlord has put a Google Nest fire alarm into their flat against their will, ignoring offers by the renter to put in a non-google-non-iot fire alarm at the renter's expense. The landlord won because apparently the court was not convinced that the fire alarm could spy on conversations [1]... What woul…
Replying to myself as I can't edit it any more: Apparently it wasn't a fire alarm from google but "Brunata Metrona Funksystem Star" [1]. It is still wirelessly connected though, not to the internet but to a ground station in the house, outside of the flats of the renters. Then once per year the station is read out by someone who connects a cable to it.
[1]: http://www.justiz.nrw.de/nrwe/ag_koeln/j2015/220_C_482_14_Ur...
Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
The renter did not have the chance to buy the fire alarm, read it again. Instead, the renter offered it but the landlord refused.
Read it again. The landlord refused to buy it, not that the renter could not use it: > 1. Der Beschwerdeführer wurde von der Vermieterin (im Folgenden: Klägerin) seiner - in einem Mehrfamilienhaus gelegenen - Wohnung auf Duldung des Einbaus von Rauchwarnmeldern in Anspruch genommen. Er lehnte das von der Klägerin ausgesuchte Gerät ab, weil es nicht lediglich dem Brandschutz diene, sondern mittels Ultraschallsensoren…
Yeah, the landlord refused to buy it, but instead wanted to install the wirelessly controlled fire alarm. Surely the renter could buy it for themselves but then there'd be two alarms, one bought by the landlord and one by the renter. The question was about the alarm the landlord installed.
Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
> - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department How about both 1. and 2.? Google wants to spy (for ad context etc) with a mic that will be enabled in due time? And why move the Overton window to "it's ok to have hidden mics in a bloody thermostat, as long as they're not enabled"?
That's getting close to conspiracy territory
First of all, is this a "conspiracy"?
https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/security/a145332...
Is this maybe?
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jun/23/google-ea...
Is this?
https://www.geekwire.com/2018/heres-amazon-say-investigating...
Perhaps this?
https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2018/07/09/smart-tvs-are-sp...
That said, "conspiracy territory" gets close to a knee jerk reaction.
History is full of conspiracies.
A conspiracy is just many people doing each other favors under the table and taking covert action to promote their private interests or political beliefs, something which happens all the time.
Heck, didn't a President resign because he conspired (including eavesdropping) against the other party?
Wasn't another in bed with mafia leaders? [2]
Haven't a third had friends profiteering of a trillion+ dollar war effort (Haliburton, etc), even using false testimony [3, 4]?
Don't tons of ex-politicians usually end up on boards of private companies they helped pass favorable legislation for and done favors to?
Haven't large corporations strong-armed whole nations, toppled governments, pushed for their own lackeys, etc [5]?
Wasn't the head of the FBI targeting, spying on, and blackmailing his personal opponents and for his personal gain? [6]
Just to mention a few examples, just the tip of the iceberg...
As Gore Vidal once wrote: "Americans have been trained by the media to go into Pavlovian giggles at the mention of the word "conspiracy," because for an American to believe in a conspiracy, he must also believe in flying saucers or, craziest of all, that more than one person was involved in the JFK murder" (Gore Vidal)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/oct/07/michaelellison [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton#Controversies [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover
Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's getting close to conspiracy territory
I think there are two ends on a diagram of skepticism and scrutiny. On one end you have individuals who will find nearly any conspiracy viable for whatever reason. That most conspiracy theories are eventually shown to be false doesn't really seem to bother them. On the other end you have individuals that will never believe anything could possibly be true, so long as a government or corporation has plausible deniabili…
>That most conspiracy theories are eventually shown to be false doesn't really seem to bother them.
Which "conspiracy theories" are eventually shown to be false?
The ones concerning aliens and lizard overloads or illuminati?
Because there are plenty corporate, political, and economic conspiracies going on all the time, including tons of "conspiracy to commit fraud/murder/etc" at smaller and larger scales, as acknowledged by courts of justice every single day.
Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret
#87Now I'm going to have to take my Google Wifi points apart to check for "forgotten" microphones
If you've got Google wifi points in my opinion you're simply inviting them to spy on you anyway.
Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret
#88Infosec dramas are getting more and more tiresome. Between this and the Singapore Airlines story, it just seems like people need to ratchet everything up to 11. You have two options, choose one: - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department For the Singapore Airlines story, you have two options, choose…
If the mic is on the BOM it's not disabled. It's just not being currently used. Maybe.
This is the most accurate explanation. In other words, it's a mic like any other. The 'disabled' in this context means nothing. Just wait till Google gets served with a warrant. Suddenly, those mics won't be disabled anymore.
Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
> - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department How about both 1. and 2.? Google wants to spy (for ad context etc) with a mic that will be enabled in due time? And why move the Overton window to "it's ok to have hidden mics in a bloody thermostat, as long as they're not enabled"?
That's getting close to conspiracy territory
Yelling "Conspiracy" at everything is quickly becoming the new "Think of the children"
It is in no way close to conspiracy to question if Google or any other company supported by Targeted Ads where they need massive amounts of Human Intelligence to perfect their ad targeting, would want to spy on their consumers
Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret
#90Infosec dramas are getting more and more tiresome. Between this and the Singapore Airlines story, it just seems like people need to ratchet everything up to 11. You have two options, choose one: - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department For the Singapore Airlines story, you have two options, choose…
>You have two options, choose one: Your analysis is sensible. Where we should choose the most likely explanation, it might become sharper: - In case you're not familiar with it, one helpful tool is prior probability (Bayesian thinking). This video is short and accessible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrK7X_XlGB8 - There is a public intelligence budget in 2018 of $54.9 billion in the United States[1], as compared w…
> Google spends a lot of effort on ensuring privacy.
HAHAHAHAHHAHA, you can not be serious
Next to Facebook, google is the most personally intrusive company there is in the world today