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Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

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Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#81

Post by gonzo »

alvern wrote: post #70
rjplatte wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 315k mile 2005 Prius agrees. I got it, replaced the traction battery, got new struts, and bam, new car. I've had it for 60k miles, and I've spent more on oil changes than any repairs besides the initial outlay.

My 2006 Prius is at 388k. I've promised myself I wouldn't get another car until this one quits. But, it just won't die. I've also priced out getting an EV for my 42 mile commute but the ROI is not there compared to a used-paid for high mileage Prius.

it's the antithesis of a Prius, but my 1992 Landcruiser with 362K miles is still on the road, and until recently, daily-driven. Daily driver now is a 1997 Landcruiser, with 172K miles.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#82

Post by davio »

kenhwang wrote: post #42
thorwasdfasdf wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, you gotta understand that's for the first 3 years only and the consumer reports is only for the first 10 years. Once you get beyond 10 years, any mechanic will tell you the European cars are absolute garbage. Especially BMW, Audi and Mercedes will self destruct at some point after 10 years. And those parts cost a heck of a lot more than non-luxury brands. Sometimes, they won't even sell you a part by its own pie…

You're conflating cost of ownership with frequency of issues (reliability). The Germans don't break often, but when they do, it'll cost a bunch. American cars break continuously, but it's cheap and easy to fix.

Google "Audi service position" for the visual explanation of German car repair costs

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#83

Post by gonzo »

clouddrover wrote: post #75
danans wrote: post #38

As electric vehicles mature and increase their share of the consumer market, it will be interesting to see how these sorts of reliability measurements change to maintain relevance. Already today, a luxury EV is probably more mechanically reliable than a mass market ICE car. Electric batteries and drivetrains have their differences in reliability for sure (IIUC, the 1st generation Nissan Leaf lacked a battery temp man…

> Already today, a luxury EV is probably more mechanically reliable than a mass market ICE car. Tesla is among the least reliable car brands at the moment: https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20... But I think that says more about the relative immaturity of Tesla's manufacturing than it does about EVs generally. It will be interesting to see how Volkswagen's modular MEB electric car platform goe…

Had a Tesla Model S. Got rid of it, went back to Toyota. Dumped the reservation on a Model 3, too.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#84

Post by jacquesm »

grewil2 wrote: post #77

I bought a plain, no turbo Volvo 940 for $1000 ten years ago. It's 25 years old now, and still is very reliable. Newer Volvos seem a lot more complex, and I can't help thinking that there's a lot more electronics and mechanisms that can break than in the old construction. Edit: ugh, I just realised I have become a grumpy old man.

Volvo is Chinese nowadays, the 940 you've bought is Swedish and no cost was spared in making it that reliable. That's also why Volvo is Chinese nowadays.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#85

Post by southphillyman »

ivalm wrote: post #43
thorwasdfasdf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyotas are extremely reliably, especially in the long term. In the long term, toyotas beat anything out there even hondas.

If you look at GP, hondas are not particularly reliable by either metric discussed. Even american Chevies rank higher.

Not sure what year the shift started but Hondas stopped getting high ratings for reliability some time in the 2000s. I retired my 2002 Civic with 250K miles on it a couple of years ago.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#86

Post by potta_coffee »

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

A Cadillac is not just an expensive car, it is an expensive car to own. (Gas, repair bills, etc.) If you are a W-2 worker you have to be at work at a certain time and you need a car that can start every morning so you can get to work on time. Higher class people can afford multiple cars, take time off from work, take a cab, etc. The Cadillac brand is appealing to many lower class Americans so you often see them in "b…

I have multiple beater cars. What class does that put me in?

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#87

Post by leevlad »

gonzo wrote: post #83
clouddrover wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Already today, a luxury EV is probably more mechanically reliable than a mass market ICE car. Tesla is among the least reliable car brands at the moment: https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20... But I think that says more about the relative immaturity of Tesla's manufacturing than it does about EVs generally. It will be interesting to see how Volkswagen's modular MEB electric car platform goe…

Had a Tesla Model S. Got rid of it, went back to Toyota. Dumped the reservation on a Model 3, too.

Would you care to expand on what pushed you to do that? Was it purely reliability, or were there other factors involved?

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#88

Post by woolvalley »

danans wrote: post #38

As electric vehicles mature and increase their share of the consumer market, it will be interesting to see how these sorts of reliability measurements change to maintain relevance. Already today, a luxury EV is probably more mechanically reliable than a mass market ICE car. Electric batteries and drivetrains have their differences in reliability for sure (IIUC, the 1st generation Nissan Leaf lacked a battery temp man…

What denotes a luxury car for the most part is the cabin interior quality, and that will stick around in the EV era too.

Toyota has a bunch of somewhat related experience with the Prius, so they might still come out on top in the end of these EV wars?

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#89

Post by shadowbannedtoo »

potta_coffee wrote: post #80
headmelted wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that a Lexus is a fancy Toyota, this doesn't surprise. I had it explained to me once by a MOT tester (a safety and emissions test in the UK that cars more than four years old must undergo annually) while my old Corolla was on the ramp that Toyota's process basically involves hardening parts from the last model for the most popular defects, with as little re-design work of the internal components between generat…

I have a Subaru beater with ~250k on it, it's going strong. Have had Toyotas with almost 300k miles on them before selling the car for ~1k bucks. I love Japanese cars. I have a Dodge Caravan, at 140k miles the thing is about ready for the junk pile.

Yea, older Toyotas are really dependable. Late 80's, and early 90's are dead simple. Make sure it's a manual tranny.

I'm in the process of buying a newer car/truck for a family member, and it's depressing. So many sensors, and computers that dealership mechanics barely comprehend.

I understand it's for emissions, but so many of those sensors are for comfort systems, and selling gizmos. The problem being is when they malfunction. A dealership mechanic will not tell a customer we are basically learning on your new computer on wheels, but they put that in the price to fix.

I went to automotive school in the ninties, and these new vechicles still scare me.

My trusty Snap-on Mt2500 is practically useless on newer vechicles.

And there will ge the guy whom claims, "I just plug a scan tool in, and that lovely system (CAN Bus system, and multiple computers), just spit out a PID, and the fix is found."

It's just so much more complicated.

On a positive note, my New Years resolution is trying to master these new electrical systems.

There's a market for a simple vechicle, like older Toyotas.

I don't see any company offering a simple vechicle? And yes, I understand emissions are a problem, but it doesn't seem like an impossible problem to get a manual four banger, with just the basics on the market.

And I won't get started on automatic transmission problems.

Sorry for the rant.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#90

Post by ams6110 »

potta_coffee wrote: post #80
headmelted wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that a Lexus is a fancy Toyota, this doesn't surprise. I had it explained to me once by a MOT tester (a safety and emissions test in the UK that cars more than four years old must undergo annually) while my old Corolla was on the ramp that Toyota's process basically involves hardening parts from the last model for the most popular defects, with as little re-design work of the internal components between generat…

I have a Subaru beater with ~250k on it, it's going strong. Have had Toyotas with almost 300k miles on them before selling the car for ~1k bucks. I love Japanese cars. I have a Dodge Caravan, at 140k miles the thing is about ready for the junk pile.

Older Toyotas rust horribly, especially the trucks, but are mechanically very solid. I've had rust issues with Nissans also. Honda seems to have it figured out.

I've been quite happy with Ford also.

Chrysler products are the worst I've ever owned from a reliability standpoint, most of my issues with them have been electrical not mechanical though.

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