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Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

nytimes.com

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Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#81

Post by gotocake »

olleromam91 wrote: post #68
jedberg wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had many a discussion about Atlas Shrugged, and in fact used to be an adherent to its philosophy. Until I realized something. For a pure Libertarian society to work, those who cannot work must die. If there is absolutely no social safety net, then if you are too sick to work, you can't make money and therefore can't get care and die. Sure, some will live through charity, but there would be far too many people wh…

I think you said the answer right there. They die.

Or they riot and rebel. The surest way to see how violent people can be is to offer them no choice in the matter. This is a country with a lot of guns, tons of space, and a poorly paid police and military. It’s not hard to imagine how the prospect of a quiet, ignominious death would go over. There are already militias and preppers, and I for one want those movements to do something other than flourish and expand.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#82

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

stale2002 wrote: post #22
g9yuayon wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt that education reform will come by any time soon. Studying STEM is not natural to many kids, yet the reality is that people in the US have been living comfortably for so long that they would rather give up teaching tough subjects for so-called children's happiness, or shit like no kids left behind. As a result, it is the ordinary kids, which is the majority middle, who will hurt -- they think they lear…

Fortunately, there are lots and lots of "technology" jobs that do not fit people's preconceived notions of what it means to be working in "STEM". Think, things like being a designer, product manager, analyst, ect, ect, ect. Even the job I do today, working as a web developer, is something that the "hardcore" programmers of 40 years ago, would likely look down on, as I do not fit into their traditional opinion, from 4…

> would likely look down on

The reason for this is because 40 years ago, you had to write everything to get something on screen.

The modern generation benefits from the foundational knowledge and be able to do more.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#83

Post by seem_2211 »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #27

The problem is that as a society we believe that people need to work 40 hours a week to survive. We replace people with robots and retain the same output. We are more productive than ever before, yet work the same amount. Physical and uneducated work is being replaced by automation, yet we expect these people replaced by robots to find jobs to survive where there are now none. I don't believe in Universal Basic Incom…

It's not that simple though - if you read the article it talks about how

1: High paying jobs aren't really increasing in number but are becoming ever better paid and 2: Low paying jobs are exploding in number but not in wages paid.

So part of the problem is that there aren't many mid level jobs that get people in and help them then increase. Tech doesn't really automate the stuff that's not super low level (like cleaning toilets, or mopping floors), and it doesn't do stuff at the high end (M&A banking, negotiating policy, writing code). But it eats a ton of stuff in the middle.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#84

Post by [deleted] »

stale2002 wrote: post #22
g9yuayon wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt that education reform will come by any time soon. Studying STEM is not natural to many kids, yet the reality is that people in the US have been living comfortably for so long that they would rather give up teaching tough subjects for so-called children's happiness, or shit like no kids left behind. As a result, it is the ordinary kids, which is the majority middle, who will hurt -- they think they lear…

Fortunately, there are lots and lots of "technology" jobs that do not fit people's preconceived notions of what it means to be working in "STEM". Think, things like being a designer, product manager, analyst, ect, ect, ect. Even the job I do today, working as a web developer, is something that the "hardcore" programmers of 40 years ago, would likely look down on, as I do not fit into their traditional opinion, from 4…

[deleted]

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#85

Post by dv_dt »

erwan wrote: post #79
jedberg wrote: post #2

There are two solutions: Part one, a more educated populace. Education will help those that can work in the "good jobs" get the good jobs. Part two, tax policy. Wealth needs to be redistributed so that there are masses to buy the products that the wealthy are creating. Edit: I just watched this post go up to 10 points, down to 3 and then back to 5. Clearly this is controversial. I find it interesting that wealth redi…

>Wealth needs to be redistributed It is not a zero-sum game. It would be more productive to facilitate wealth creation rather than devise new ways to forcibly take-away private property that offends you. Reducing the countless barriers to entry that stunt human ingenuity is where the real fight is. People can learn, and they are already (e.g Make/Lambda School) when provided with cost-effective training that delivers…

> It is not a zero-sum game.

I agree, but when it comes to government funding of programs to facilitate wealth creation, many act like it is zero sum.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#86

Post by baroffoos »

mrweasel wrote: post #54
jedberg wrote: post #2

There are two solutions: Part one, a more educated populace. Education will help those that can work in the "good jobs" get the good jobs. Part two, tax policy. Wealth needs to be redistributed so that there are masses to buy the products that the wealthy are creating. Edit: I just watched this post go up to 10 points, down to 3 and then back to 5. Clearly this is controversial. I find it interesting that wealth redi…

>Wealth needs to be redistributed I'm still not convinced that it's possible to successfully tax the rich enough to ensure that the poor isn't poor. The redistribution (and taxation) always comes up as "the solution" to inequality. I think that's overestimating how rich the rich are, and underestimating the number of poor people. It's easier to make the rich poorer, and close the wealth cap that way, compared to maki…

Is this backed up by any stats? Last I saw the stats on America showed the top % is unimaginably rich and the inequality is massively worse than other countries like Australia where the average person is much better off.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#87

Post by Domenic_S »

whateveracct wrote: post #43
atemerev wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Redistribution” is inherently unfair; there is no “redistribution” except by force. Venezuela was the most recent in the vast row of examples of how redistribution works; probably not the last, as the idea keeps being pushed by some people for some reason, completely unimaginable to me.

Why is redistribution of wealthy any more unfair than the circumstances that gave rise to it in the first place? Nobody inherently deserves their wealth - it's largely a function of circumstance.

This seems like a "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." kind of answer. At what point is circumstance not responsible? How much of our circumstances are we responsible for? Can we change other people's circumstances? By how much, and how does it affect outcome?

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#88

Post by erik_seaberg »

atemerev wrote: post #36
jedberg wrote: post #2

There are two solutions: Part one, a more educated populace. Education will help those that can work in the "good jobs" get the good jobs. Part two, tax policy. Wealth needs to be redistributed so that there are masses to buy the products that the wealthy are creating. Edit: I just watched this post go up to 10 points, down to 3 and then back to 5. Clearly this is controversial. I find it interesting that wealth redi…

“Redistribution” is inherently unfair; there is no “redistribution” except by force. Venezuela was the most recent in the vast row of examples of how redistribution works; probably not the last, as the idea keeps being pushed by some people for some reason, completely unimaginable to me.

It's unfair that you were born into a world of people who want your stuff. It's also unfair they were born into a world with no frontier they could homestead to make their own stuff.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#89

Post by malandrew »

A big problem is looking at markets locally and ignoring all the people who contribute to that economy but don't live locally. Many of the tools and other resources used by those in Arizona are produced by workers elsewhere. Software might be created by people in the Bay Area. Robots may be designed and engineered by people in Germany or Japan. Etc.

When you only looking locally, you miss out on all the employment elsewhere that contributes to the local economy you're analyzing.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#90

Post by atemerev »

lutorm wrote: post #55
atemerev wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Redistribution” is inherently unfair; there is no “redistribution” except by force. Venezuela was the most recent in the vast row of examples of how redistribution works; probably not the last, as the idea keeps being pushed by some people for some reason, completely unimaginable to me.

There's redistribution going on in the U.S. today, but not by force, by wealth and influence. Do you think that's less unfair?

Much less. Wealth without force only provides more options, not takea it away. Wealth is a great force multiplier, though, and force can be used for evil.
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