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Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

reuters.com

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Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#81

Post by makomk »

benj111 wrote: post #34
x3tm wrote: post #21

And yet, they can't reach an agreement with each other. Edit: I meant this as a light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek, comment re the Brexit negotiations. It was apparently wrong to do so (?). I even took precious time from the fallacy man ( http://existentialcomics.com/comic/9 ).

The EU (minus Britain) are united. Its just Britain that cant agree with itself.

If there's one thing about Brexit that Britain can agree on, it's that the deal that's being offered by the EU is awful. It lead to the largest House of Commons defeat for a key government bill in history, and it polls terribly with pretty much everyone. That's why the EU (and most of the British press) have been using the fact that May managed to trade some bad parts of their proposal with differently bad replacements to spin the whole thing as the UK's doing. Pundits also like to potray the EU as an inanimate object incapable of culpability for anything and the UK as the only one responsible for changing.

Also, we don't even know that most of the EU is united even on Brexit - they've carefully held off their required votes on the Brexit deal until after the UK gets it through Parliament, which doesn't look like happening any time soon.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#82

Post by cletus »

nkozyra wrote: post #5

Good. I don't know how much longer Americans are going to buy the boogiemen we keep getting fed. Sovereign nations under the the U.S.' thumb, not being able to control their own destiny only works so long as we're complacent. I sense we're growing tired of war for war's sake, leery of ideological battles built for future blowback down the road. We see enough people profiting from these wars to wonder how much global…

This is going to be the really unfortunate legacy of Trump: disastrous foreign policy and the loss of soft power.

1. Denial of Russia's meddling in US election because it runs counter to Trump's ego and he had a weird soft spot for autocrats.

2. The baseless termination of the Iran nuclear Accord as essentially a capitulation to Israel and Israeli interests. There was no violation of the agreement. The best the administrative could come up with was that Iran was violating the "spirit" of the agreement with actions that took place prior to it. WTF?

3. Giving North Korea a pass, a country that actually has unchecked nuclear ambitions and a deplorable human rights record.

4. Giving Saudi Arabia a pass on killing a US permanent resident in Turkey (Trump asked on camera "he's not a citizen right?"). Why? Because they're an ally. Why exactly is that? Well because of Iraq. Why was Iraq an enemy? Well because of Iran. Why was Iran an enemy? Well because we incited a revolution there to remove a democratically elected government leading to a hardline religious revolution so they didn't like is. Then we propped up a dictator and supplied him with arms, commenting a war that killed millions. Yeah ok. But hey MBS is another Putin in the making so that's fine.

Honestly the only bright spot in this (and there really is one) is that China's misdeeds seem to be getting called out.

Anyway the whole Iran thing just makes me angry. The best thing we could do there is work towards normalization is relations. Three internal politics were slowly becoming more moderate. Isolating them gives more power to the hardliners.

But that's really the story of the disproportionate power Israel has over US foreign policy. Gone are the days when Eisenhower told them to get the hell out of Sinai.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#83

Post by AsyncAwait »

danra wrote: post #58
nkozyra wrote: post #5

Good. I don't know how much longer Americans are going to buy the boogiemen we keep getting fed. Sovereign nations under the the U.S.' thumb, not being able to control their own destiny only works so long as we're complacent. I sense we're growing tired of war for war's sake, leery of ideological battles built for future blowback down the road. We see enough people profiting from these wars to wonder how much global…

> I hope we stop buying in. When a politician tells us a country is evil, we need to start asking for receipts. Well, there’s the minor issue of Iran’s totalitarian regime consistently announcing their intent to destroy Israel and devestate the U.S.A, and taking actual steps to support the same. I am Israeli and completely left-wing by the way, and believe there are many steps both Israel and the U.S. could take to m…

[flagged]

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#84

Post by louisswiss »

fredley wrote: post #18
colde wrote: post #3

I'm surprised that Britain is even behind this, as they might have been a bit nervous about the US response, considering their ongoing Brexit. This is a great example of how current US foreign policy means a loss of soft power all over the world. I do think that this is a win for world stability though, trading tends to help relations, which helps stops all sort of unpleasantness. Whether this will be enough i don't…

> considering their ongoing Brexit One of the big campaigns for Leave was that the EU was dampening our ability to trade with the rest of the World. I guess maybe not then?

Free trade is a socially acceptable excuse Brexit voters can use to mask the real reasons they voted to leave. As is sovereignty.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#85

Post by oblio »

oriol11 wrote: post #15
entity345 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Iran regime largely owes its very existence to the way the West (particularly UK and US) behaved towards the country. Do they think that hitting even harder will have any result?

I became an islamist terrorist state because they forced me to.

Umm... if "they" wreck your life completely, you might be tempted to. Go read up Iran's history in the 20th century.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#86

Post by benj111 »

sscott wrote: post #79
benj111 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? This means Britain will actually have one trade agreement by the time it leaves the EU. "This is a great example of how current US foreign policy means a loss of soft power all over the world" Agreed, it does seem very short sighted. Once a system is in place, and it works, suddenly its very easy to apply that system to any other regime where the US doesn't agree with the rest of the world. Plus what's the point…

Because it'll be the worse trade deal anybody has signed in the history of the world for Britain.

But it'll also be the best that Britain has, so.....

Glass half full, and all that.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#87

Post by m0skit0 »

A "deal" that has near-zero value for both parties where the EU is more trying to save face by showing it is "independent" while trying to not anger the USA anyway by applying other sanctions. IMHO this is a pretty weak move from the EU, and shows that there is no clear driver behind the EU wheel after the souring of US-EU relations.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#88

Post by matthewdgreen »

oriol11 wrote: post #14

[flagged]

The most likely alternative to upholding the Iran nuclear deal is Iran mounting nuclear warheads on ballistic missiles and pointing them at the United States, the same way North Korea has. There is no upside at all to tearing it down.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#89

Post by okal »

jdowongns wrote: post #59
anc84 wrote: post #48

We should have embargos on the US for pursuing a climate change program that destroys the planet.

Yeah, except that the US has reduced emissions more than any other country and is highly competitive on a per-capita percentage basis.

Not true. The US is responsible for 14% of emissions, which is unconscionable for a country that only holds ~4.5% of the world's population. You're actually doing quite horribly on a per-capita basis. China is doing far better than the US on a per-capita count.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#90

Post by nkozyra »

smashcash wrote: post #8
grecy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I keep hearing the most wonderful things about the people of Sudan, I can't wait to get there soon and discover for myself!

The fact that some boogiemen are not as terrible as portrayed, or that we shouldn't put too much effort to go after them, does not imply that all boogiemen are actually nice.

> does not imply that all boogiemen are actually nice. reply

I think that goes without saying. But after fighting ideological / proxy wars against communism, "terrorism" and "hell, just because" I think we need a little more support.

Here we have a long-standing soft war against a country and/or people for whom Western meddling has demonstrably affected their life for the worse. Every time they do anything acting in their own sovereign interest we peg it as evil and impose some wrist-slapping or worse.

I don't for one second believe that the leadership of Iran is "good." Nor do I believe they're inherently evil. We refuse to concede any responsibility in the fate of their land over the last 100 years, continue to box them in and it seems more and more apparent we're keeping them on the hotplate in case we need a new war.

I have a pretty skeptical view of lower-case-l libertarians, most of whom are just using it as a veneer over some otherwise lockstep partisan affiliation. But one thing I've found very encouraging is that movement's general cynicism toward continued world power interventionism.

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