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According to the IRS you are a private contractor employed by Google

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Re: According to the IRS you are a private contractor employed by Google

#81
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google issues 1099s to anyone that earns over 400 or 600 dollars so the IRS knows if you're making money. Why do I feel like noting this could have saved more than a few words in the article; at the very least, how was it that this salient fact is never mentioned? > Also, there are ways to avoid paying SE tax entirely. If you incorporate into a S Corp and pay yourself a reasonable income, the rest would be excluded…

Is you do incorporate you will need to pay corporate taxes, in addition the corporation will need to pay the employer portion of the SE tax. (So you don't pay it, the corporation does, and since they need to pay it they reduce your salary by that much, i.e. it's a wash.) Becoming a corporation will not reduce your taxes, but it will significantly increase the complexity. The main benefit it liability, not financial.

If you create an S-Corp then you wouldn't pay corporate tax since an S-Corporation is a passthrough entity. Legally you are protected and tax-wise you only pay on the 1040, but you avoid SE Tax.

I could point you to a number of resources to clarify the issue, if your interested?

Re: According to the IRS you are a private contractor employed by Google

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have this word "business" which has some kind of vague meaning, so we attach a bunch of rules to the abstraction... It isn't quantum mechanics. The rules which the OP professes not to understand boil down to this: 1) Everyone owes income taxes and Social Security/unemployment ("FICA") taxes on all of their income. To restate this in a fun but cartoony way: everyone is a "business". [1] No philosophical debate nece…

Everyone owes income taxes and Social Security/unemployment ("FICA") taxes on all of their income. Actually, this isn't true; the Social Security portion of FICA (which is most of it) is only paid on the first $106k of your gross income (in 2010). Additionally, the word "income" in your sentence reveals some very complex questions about the differences between gross revenue, gross income, modified adjusted gross inco…

I agree that income is a complicated issue when it comes to tax and that hiring an accountant would be helpful. But, as an accountant I also think that a little reading could probably be just as good often times since 90% of the issues I see a generally fairly straight forward.

Re: According to the IRS you are a private contractor employed by Google

#83
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you propose instead? A link is fine.

I assume he wants consumption (i.e. sales or vat tax) instead of income tax. Google "fair tax" for one such proposal.

This doesn't seem to make sense to me as it almost seems a reverse progressive tax. People earning just enough to get by will be spending almost 100% of their income on goods, thus having a very high VAT tax as a proportion of their income, while people in the very high income brackets tend to spend far less on actual "goods" as a percentage of their income.

My family, for example, puts far more money in the stock market than they do in groceries every month.

Re: According to the IRS you are a private contractor employed by Google

#84

The income tax system, and the principle of taxing income, is wrong in so many ways, but I have given up arguing the point. The inertia of the system and the inertia of individuals is too great to overcome. I've identified these major contributing factors: 1) Vested interests that like the tax system the way it is. 2) Envy and fear of envy. People who think the income tax takes from the rich, and people who happily p…

Can you write a few sentences about why the principle of taxing income is wrong and what you propose instead? The salary of my first job is largely a function of the fact that I was born in the United States and educated by some of the best public institutions in the world. It's a fact that I would be paid less had I been born a citizen of a different country. On a simple level it seems very logical to me that my income be taxed because it reflects the benefits I have received from living in the US.

Re: According to the IRS you are a private contractor employed by Google

#85
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone owes income taxes and Social Security/unemployment ("FICA") taxes on all of their income. Actually, this isn't true; the Social Security portion of FICA (which is most of it) is only paid on the first $106k of your gross income (in 2010). Additionally, the word "income" in your sentence reveals some very complex questions about the differences between gross revenue, gross income, modified adjusted gross inco…

I agree that income is a complicated issue when it comes to tax and that hiring an accountant would be helpful. But, as an accountant I also think that a little reading could probably be just as good often times since 90% of the issues I see a generally fairly straight forward.

Agreed, and I've always done my own taxes, despite having investment real estate and businesses in different states. However, I finally hired a CPA just to look at my stuff and ensure I'm doing things right.

Re: According to the IRS you are a private contractor employed by Google

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have this word "business" which has some kind of vague meaning, so we attach a bunch of rules to the abstraction... It isn't quantum mechanics. The rules which the OP professes not to understand boil down to this: 1) Everyone owes income taxes and Social Security/unemployment ("FICA") taxes on all of their income. To restate this in a fun but cartoony way: everyone is a "business". [1] No philosophical debate nece…

Everyone owes income taxes and Social Security/unemployment ("FICA") taxes on all of their income. Actually, this isn't true; the Social Security portion of FICA (which is most of it) is only paid on the first $106k of your gross income (in 2010). Additionally, the word "income" in your sentence reveals some very complex questions about the differences between gross revenue, gross income, modified adjusted gross inco…

Thank you for providing a moan of despair, right on cue! According to my off-the-cuff hypothesis, this suggests that you have the soul of a CPA. ;)

Obviously, my pocket-sized rule of thumb isn't designed for people who earn $100+K per year. Those people can afford accountants. Likewise, people for whom adjusted gross income is a necessarily complex calculation involving the phase of the moon can probably also afford accountants; if not, they need a simpler or more profitable financial plan.

Hiring an accountant isn't a particularly difficult thing to do. They're on every street corner. In the month of March, you'll find people dressed in costumes standing at the side of the road, advertising them. [1] And even the robot tax accountant built into Quicken Online was pretty good, in my limited experience. Would Quicken Online have caught the OP's FICA problem? I don't know, but quite possibly. I've never tried to declare substantial quantities of non-1099, non-W2 income in Quicken before, but you'd think it would at least pop up an ominous dialog box.

---

[1] A friend of mine had this job once.

Re: According to the IRS you are a private contractor employed by Google

#87

The income tax system, and the principle of taxing income, is wrong in so many ways, but I have given up arguing the point. The inertia of the system and the inertia of individuals is too great to overcome. I've identified these major contributing factors: 1) Vested interests that like the tax system the way it is. 2) Envy and fear of envy. People who think the income tax takes from the rich, and people who happily p…

What do you propose instead? A link is fine.

The right, even obligation, of the sovereign is to dip a straw in the stream of commerce and extract revenue. Tax farming was the way to do this in olden days, a highly inefficient and grossly unjust means. Today the income tax is the predominant means, and it is sold as the socially just alternative. I don't want to argue the social justice aspect. I pointed out some contradictions in another comment.

I will argue for an alternative that is far more efficient and retains progressive elements.

In the U.S. the tax collection points number in the 100s of millions. This incurs cost on the sovereign, reducing the value of the collected revenue, and on the taxpayers, increasing the burden of the tax. It makes much more sense to switch to a system where the tax collection points number in the 10s of thousands, and the rules are transparent.

Public utilities are already extremely efficient tax collectors. Take a close look at your utility bill. The taxes may have confusing names, but they are there, and the utility collects them and remits them to the sovereign with very small staffs implementing very simple rules (compared to the IRS tax code).

Bear with me, I am now getting to the meat. Think of an energy transformation tax. Whenever energy is transformed (in most cases combusted), it is taxed. Somewhat like a value added tax, but only for energy. For instance, coal at the electrical generator: taxed; natural gas to heat a building: taxed; gasoline or diesel pumped into a vehicle:taxed; electricity at a meter: taxed.

Utilities are already set up to do this. Just bring on oil and coal companies and a few others. Those are your tax collectors.

Social justice / progressive tax? The utilities are also already set up to do this. So-called life-line or base-line rates on bare minimum consumption don't get taxed. Likewise a minimum level of gasoline and diesel consumption could be tax free to individuals.

Energy consumption underpins virtually all economic activity. There is no escaping taxes in the underground economy. Energy theft can be made a special case of crime with appropriately draconian punishment.

And do you really want to soak the rich? What do you think their energy footprint looks like compared to the common man's? Even when all they do is clip coupons.

Concerned about rising CO^2 levels? Tax hydrocarbon conversion higher than others. That which you tax you get less of. That which you subsidize you get more of.

The economic analysis of tax rates on different fuels is very feasible compared to analyzing the entire economy. I don't underestimate the capacity of elected politicians to complicate and demagogue anything, but an annual debate on energy conversion rates would be far more transparent than the budget process.

Of course it would be a big shock to jump to such a system in a single year, and this has only been a brief outline of such a plan. Better to implement over several years and dedicate the IRS to catching tax cheats from the old (income-based) system while it is mostly phased-out.

Re: According to the IRS you are a private contractor employed by Google

#88
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have this word "business" which has some kind of vague meaning, so we attach a bunch of rules to the abstraction... It isn't quantum mechanics. The rules which the OP professes not to understand boil down to this: 1) Everyone owes income taxes and Social Security/unemployment ("FICA") taxes on all of their income. To restate this in a fun but cartoony way: everyone is a "business". [1] No philosophical debate nece…

The author indicates that taxes were paid, just the wrong style of taxes: I had been declaring that ad revenue as "extra income" and dutifully paying my taxes on it. Suddenly last year the IRS informed me I owed them scads of money that I didn't have. Still, it's nice to know the IRS has time and resources to squeeze both me AND the guys who brought down Wall Street. Oh, wait, those guys are still swilling Chivas in…

It's an easy mistake to make. I know someone who did this very thing.

It's true that American education does a pitiful job of impressing upon the average citizen that (a) accountants rule the world; (b) you should therefore take a basic accounting class, and/or pay attention to the words in those IRS instructions that the government carefully mails to you every year; and (c) you should talk to an accountant for an hour every few years, unless you can't afford that, in which case you should probably still try to find a way to talk to an accountant, pro bono or something, because they might be able to help.

Re: According to the IRS you are a private contractor employed by Google

#89
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that income is a complicated issue when it comes to tax and that hiring an accountant would be helpful. But, as an accountant I also think that a little reading could probably be just as good often times since 90% of the issues I see a generally fairly straight forward.

Agreed, and I've always done my own taxes, despite having investment real estate and businesses in different states. However, I finally hired a CPA just to look at my stuff and ensure I'm doing things right.

I think that was probably the smart decision. Learning on your own and then paying an accountant to review your conclusions is very cost effective and it'll definitely pay-off in the long term. If you ever have a question, feel free to shoot me an email. =)

Re: According to the IRS you are a private contractor employed by Google

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you propose instead? A link is fine.

The right, even obligation, of the sovereign is to dip a straw in the stream of commerce and extract revenue. Tax farming was the way to do this in olden days, a highly inefficient and grossly unjust means. Today the income tax is the predominant means, and it is sold as the socially just alternative. I don't want to argue the social justice aspect. I pointed out some contradictions in another comment. I will argue f…

This is definitely the most interesting proposal to revamp the tax system that I've heard. Thanks for sharing.
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